[Destinyscharm]

If it was such a long shot,why would bethesda even mention it.....They wouldn't.

Did you read the article? Do you have any historical experience with what Beth talks about? Radiant AI much?

[u gone see]

If it was such a long shot,why would bethesda even mention it.....They wouldn't.

Because it's to their advantage to do so. If they can set the minds of only a few console users to rest and get them to agree to buy the game on the off-chance that they'll be able to mod it in the future, then Beth has gained simply from publicly stating that that's what they want. And in the future, when some Beth spokesman sighs and wrings his hands and says that gee, they really did try to get modding access for the console users, but it just didn't work out that way, and boy they sure are dreadfully sorry, that money that they made off of the console users who bought the game on the hope of being able to mod it is already on Beth's quarterly reports, and that's what REALLY matters.

This isn't the Boy Scouts. Beth isn't some fresh-scrubbed and beatific angel - it's a company with a primary objective of making a profit. If misleading people is profitable, they'll do it. That's just sound business practices.

[Jennifer Munroe]

Sure.

Here comes the following:

WHO will make these free mods for the consoles?

How will you make sure that they work and fit in with limited console hardware and capabilities?

Obviously the answer to the first is PC players would have to make them, a console player is not going to get a a second copy for PC, which is NEEDED to test the mod over and over.
He/she would need certain programs and skills, and if you have them and actually will BOTHER with mods, why would you play on console to begin with and why would you limit yourself in what type of mod you can put out.

How would testing go about for the consoles and the mods? Any little thing can cause a conflict and crash the game.
Default PC textures are higher resolution so now modders would have to REDUCE the quality of their mods of supply tons of different textures to fit console and PC.

How many calls will console support get from mods that broke their game?
I don't even see this as feasible.

Only way they could do it safely would be to take a popular mod and test it themselves (BGS), and try and implement it as a patch for the consoles in order to ensure quality and game stability etc.
Or somehow make some limited modkits for use for console mods, I don't know.

I just don't see this working as it is right now.

Just seems like a huge undertaking that will just end up killing off the normal free modding that PC has now, something's got to give in a scenario like this and it is ALWAYS us PC players that suffer. ALWAYS.

I can't believe I just read you last line there... No need to even say anything about it, it speaks for itself...

Anyways:
You are missing the key word here, Creation-Kit. Yes that's right, Todd specifically explained that if mods are to come on consoles they are such mods that are created with BGS own tool, which will work on both PC and consoles because it's already in the game.

Besides, no one is forcing anyone to make mods at all, because it will always be a lot of work with endless testing, be it on PC or PS3 or Xbox360. The idea to use mods only made with the creation kit is specifically to make sure the mods work on the consoles.

[Jamie Moysey]

I understand what you mean but it doesn't change the fact that whether or not it's worth their while they don't have to give us the CK at all.

I don't get why they would gimp the CK just for consoles that just doesn't make sense to me at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to simply only allow mods that are within reason on a console eg. Houses, swords, stat changes etc? That way the PC retains all the modding ability and consoles get it too and they wouldn't lose any fan base because PC modding was gimped.. You and man others seem to be making up an imaginary scenario that makes no sense and then toting it like it would obviously happen that way.

If you think I'm just another console player saying yes mods must happen I'm not, I play on PC but I see no reason for the CK to be gimped that's a completely ridiculous assumption.

BGS has included a modkit for almost all their games, perhaps all actually.
I know of Morrowind , Oblivion, Fallout 3 etc.

This is the first time they are talking about wanting mods for consoles.
The funny thing is a mod is a free product, if there is ever money exchanged it would not be a mod but a product a DLC.
So who would BGS think would make these mods for consoles? Console players, hardly they wouldn't play on consoles if the bothered so much with mods.

How would they make sure the mods won't crash the consoles? Any little change can affect the game and cause a conflict, I know a simple thing as let's say an armor can cause missing textures.
Who would "test" the mod to see that it works on consoles all the time?

Clearly this is NOT the case of just opening a door for consoles to somehow randomly download a mod and have it work.

So something needs to be done for it to work for consoles, IE a special modkit (gimped I guess), special installer tools for consoles that verify integrity and conflicts and also installs it automatically.
Who will make them? BGS? Will that mean delays cause now they need to make more complex tools for suitability for limitations of consoles.

Delay is what that spell, I also don't see much reason for it cause PC modder wouldn't hinder himself with less abilities and things he can put in his mod to work for consoles, so he wouldn't bother making mods for consoles.
So, then the problem arise that there isn't enough CONSOLE players that mod for consoles but on a PC, so hardly any mods available or working.
Unless of course MONEY has a hand in it, IE modders offered money for certain mods that BGS/MS/Sony would release and make sure would work with the console version.
If that is the case it is no longer modding and it would ruin the modding community cause if modders get paid, then the "free" mods go out the window.

I don't know, so many scenarios in so many directions it just doesn't seem worth it.

PC modding is simplistic, not in how they are made but how things work.

A special modkit is made for PC by developer and it is released (SDK), modders start to play around with it creating things, and they are hosted.
Players download them and rate them etc and that's it.
If it crashes you re-install or remove the mod or use PC specific tools and installers made by USERS.

Trying to make that work for consoles seem like a nightmare.

[Lilit Ager]

The only reason I don't like the idea of adding mod capability to consoles, is because there's already a nice modding community out there. I'd hate for there to be 9x more people flooding it.

Modding also alters the game's stability, which is not ideal from Microsoft's perspective.

I also wonder if things like SSE (Skyrim Script Extender) will work on consoles.

[Rebekah Rebekah Nicole]

Nevermind you miss the point entirely,i was responding to what someone else said. If mods cost me money on consoles i'd pay for it,and yes it would cost me. If i decided to buy a PC for mods,that would cost me extra also,because i would have to buy a PC to use mods...you see?

It;s not rocket science my friend.

Well, you don't seem to get what a MOD is then.

Mods are free, if you ever have to pay for a mod it ceases to be a mod and become a product, a DLC if you will.

So that wouldn't rhyme with BGS wanting MODDING for consoles.

If BGS would make these mods themselves and not charge for it, it would also not be "mods" cause that is USER created content, if the developers make it it would be a "patch with content".

So PC players would be the modders, and how the hell would console users:
1. download it
2. install it
3. Know that it works, without crashing their game
4. check for conflicts and know if the console can handle the mod, IE too large textures or too much content etc.

The list goes on and on.

[x a million...]

I am so hoping for mods for the console, as basic as they may be. i hope this is going to be completely fun for me. Ive loved oblivion on the console enough to come to this forum and ask some questions about modding and the ability to build a computer for skyrim as i want to mod (i want my own dungeon and dwelling). For me its going to be a win win. im going to buy both versions of the game. one for me to play and mod on the puter and one for the wife to play on the xbox or vise versa. ill be able to learn the basics of the modding stuff and get the wife to download it and check it out on the console. Then ill be able to take my mod to the next level and prepare it for the nexus (which i cant ever see going away). I hope they dont minimize what you can do as i want to be able to apply all the computing power of my system to my mods eventually as i learn, and hope to make people want to upgrade their systems videocards... lol Who knows.... maybe ill finally find something im good at.

on another note. if its possible to mod stuff on the console this gen then that means it will be possible to do it on the next gen better. things have to start somewhere. gonna quit now cause from here i just start ranting. lol

[Eibe Novy]

Did you read the article? Do you have any historical experience with what Beth talks about? Radiant AI much?

Bethesda never lied about the AI for your information. Also "todd" prefers the xbox as a platform,the mods will work on the consoles,the have talked to microsoft and sony about it,and there is a chance it may happen one day. Why your fetching AI into this i don't know.

[Bedford White]

Bethesda never lied about the AI for your information. Also "todd" prefers the xbox as a platform,the mods will work on the consoles,the have talked to microsoft and sony about it,and there is a chance it may happen one day. Why your fetching AI into this i don't know.

Because Todd isn't infallible. Just because he says something doesn't mean it will happen. Pretty much the same as that conversation about the city of Daggerfall, and him saying how he would like to see it redone. People jumped to the conclusion that they we're planning on remaking that city, and some thought it would even be in Skyrim (the game).

[Laura Mclean]

is it me or is thise thread more a PC versus consol user war then about the construction kit topic?
but whateva...

i think if it works out properly then why not

if you ask me they also can make 2 diff kind of construction kits 1 pc and some kind of sandbox editor for consols with a pc model uploader function to upload sertant model for example blender made 1s
and with a sandbox editor i meen someting like the halo 3 sandbox mulitplayer kit for consol worked pritty good if you ask me
and that way you keep the 2 barking dogs seperate with they own bone to chew on

sorry for the bad spelling btw

[M!KkI]

Bethesda never lied about the AI for your information. Also "todd" prefers the xbox as a platform,the mods will work on the consoles,the have talked to microsoft and sony about it,and there is a chance it may happen one day. Why your fetching AI into this i don't know.

Assumption much?

And Bethesda did "lie" about Radiant AI which promised alot of really cool features but wasn't shipped with Oblivion and we later found out half the stuff they were saying was going to be included hadn't even been made or tested yet.

So "Lie" no, but intentionally withhold some information and cut game content they said would be included, yes.

[Kitana Lucas]

Bethesda never lied about the AI for your information. Also "todd" prefers the xbox as a platform,the mods will work on the consoles,the have talked to microsoft and sony about it,and there is a chance it may happen one day. Why your fetching AI into this i don't know.

I'd like to play poker with you.

[aisha jamil]

I can't believe I just read you last line there... No need to even say anything about it, it speaks for itself...

Anyways:
You are missing the key word here, Creation-Kit. Yes that's right, Todd specifically explained that if mods are to come on consoles they are such mods that are created with BGS own tool, which will work on both PC and consoles because it's already in the game.

Besides, no one is forcing anyone to make mods at all, because it will always be a lot of work with endless testing, be it on PC or PS3 or Xbox360. The idea to use mods only made with the creation kit is specifically to make sure the mods work on the consoles.

Really?

I hope you're aware that modding of games on the PC is almost dead by now, Bethesda is the last developers that has consistently put out a modkit.
Bioware didn't put out an SDK for DA2, did they.

If you use your head you can quickly figure out one of the causes behind this.
DLC, paid for mods made by the company itself.

Why would all these companies release SDK when users just create new content for themselves not needing that $15 COD map pack and so on.

DLC killed modding, Developers not caring about creating a user friendly modkit for a market that is so small is another.
How about that most games today for PC is nothing but ports with a UI slapped on.

This is why I say PC ALWAYS suffer, consoles never had modding to begin with.
Nothing has EVER been lost for console players in their games.

How about dedicated servers that was a given before but now is questioned for every single MP game?

So how about you think before you respond like you "know"....

Not only that but you honestly think a MOD made for PC, will "just work cause it was made with BGS creation-kit", then you need re-evaluate that comment again.

Consoles don't even have the same resolution of textures as a base, consoles might have 512x512, PC might have 1024x1024 or much higher.

A modder might just make an armor mod with the PC textures and some console player download it and it has textures far higher than console is capable of.
List goes on with the discrepancies between the two platforms.

[Jordan Fletcher]

God. I don't get all this system bashing. At the end of the day we are all just people sitting in front of a screen pressing buttons.

[courtnay]

Well, you don't seem to get what a MOD is then.

Mods are free, if you ever have to pay for a mod it ceases to be a mod and become a product, a DLC if you will.

So that wouldn't rhyme with BGS wanting MODDING for consoles.

If BGS would make these mods themselves and not charge for it, it would also not be "mods" cause that is USER created content, if the developers make it it would be a "patch with content".

So PC players would be the modders, and how the hell would console users:
1. download it
2. install it
3. Know that it works, without crashing their game
4. check for conflicts and know if the console can handle the mod, IE too large textures or too much content etc.

The list goes on and on.

I know mods are free,again you've missed the point. I ain't explaining myself again.

[Lizzie]

Well, you don't seem to get what a MOD is then.

Mods are free, if you ever have to pay for a mod it ceases to be a mod and become a product, a DLC if you will.

So that wouldn't rhyme with BGS wanting MODDING for consoles.

If BGS would make these mods themselves and not charge for it, it would also not be "mods" cause that is USER created content, if the developers make it it would be a "patch with content".

So PC players would be the modders, and how the hell would console users:
1. download it
2. install it
3. Know that it works, without crashing their game
4. check for conflicts and know if the console can handle the mod, IE too large textures or too much content etc.

The list goes on and on.

Correct... The only mod that i know that you must buy is Garry's Mod...

[Vickey Martinez]

I'd like to play poker with you.

If it does happen,your going to look pretty stupid,aren't you? We don't know for sure it will,but there is a chance whether you think it's a ploy or not,and if not this gen of consoles,then i'll bet it will happen for the next gen.Either way,in the end,not only PC users will be able to use mods.

[Sarah Unwin]

Really?

I hope you're aware that modding of games on the PC is almost dead by now, Bethesda is the last developers that has consistently put out a modkit.
Bioware didn't put out an SDK for DA2, did they.

"Modding" isn't dead. A developer-made and released toolkit is the exception - not the rule. The vast majority of "modding" has always been done by the much more straightforward process of people cracking the game's data files and writing and/or adapting simple tools to manipulate the existing data and add new data. That's the way the bulk of it has been done, is done and will continue to be done.

[Karl harris]

I'd like to play poker with you.

Theres no chance Microsoft will agree to this, they denied Valve and Unreal...

[Lisa]

Really?

I hope you're aware that modding of games on the PC is almost dead by now, Bethesda is the last developers that has consistently put out a modkit.
Bioware didn't put out an SDK for DA2, did they.

If you use your head you can quickly figure out one of the causes behind this.
DLC, paid for mods made by the company itself.

Why would all these companies release SDK when users just create new content for themselves not needing that $15 COD map pack and so on.

DLC killed modding, Developers not caring about creating a user friendly modkit for a market that is so small is another.
How about that most games today for PC is nothing but ports with a UI slapped on.

This is why I say PC ALWAYS suffer, consoles never had modding to begin with.
Nothing has EVER been lost for console players in their games.

How about dedicated servers that was a given before but now is questioned for every single MP game?

So how about you think before you respond like you "know"....

It is true. Its a very warped argument when console users complain about what they don't have, when the state of PC gaming is what suffers at the hands of the rise of console gaming on a consistent basis. Every compromise made is at the cost of the quality and availability of quality PC gaming, not the other way around. If the people want plug and play, convenience, and cheap, they get what they ask for along with all the watering down that goes with it. It comes at the same cost as do all things that are diminished in their quality for the sake of mass production and profit. Its an abundantly hypocritical argument to say that PC users are selfish to want to preserve what is left of something that is/can be better. Whether directly or indirectly, the rise of console gaming kills off the things that were good about PC gaming, and blends everything into a bland, uniform gruel in a closed system that walks along the line of mediocrity.

[Invasion's]

It is true. Its a very warped argument when console users complain about what they don't have, when the state of PC gaming is what suffers at the hands of the rise of console gaming on a consistent basis. Every compromise made is at the cost of the quality and availability of quality PC gaming, not the other way around. If the people want plug and play, convenience, and cheap, they get what they ask for along with all the watering down that goes with it. It comes at the same cost as do all things that are diminished in their quality for the sake of mass production and profit. Its an abundantly hypocritical argument to say that PC users are selfish to want to preserve what is left of something that is/can be better. Whether directly or indirectly, the rise of console gaming kills off the things that were good about PC gaming, and blends everything into a bland, uniform gruel in a closed system that walks along the line of mediocrity.

Wonder if that will fit in my sig? :wink_smile:

[Maria Leon]

"Modding" isn't dead. A developer-made and released toolkit is the exception - not the rule. The vast majority of "modding" has always been done by the much more straightforward process of people cracking the game's data files and writing and/or adapting simple tools to manipulate the existing data and add new data. That's the way the bulk of it has been done, is done and will continue to be done.

Ah, yes cause the mods for Dragon Age 2 are so "EPIC", compared to real mods made through SDK's.

DA2 are an example of the "hacked mods" cause they didn't release an SDK.

Do you think you'd see the variety that Oblivion/Morrowind has or Fallout 3 in Dragon Age 2, didn't think so.

25,000 mods for Oblivion so far.

Proper modding is with a released SDK, and that has been all but killed off as of yet.

[LuBiE LoU]

It is true. Its a very warped argument when console users complain about what they don't have, when the state of PC gaming is what suffers at the hands of the rise of console gaming on a consistent basis. Every compromise made is at the cost of the quality and availability of quality PC gaming, not the other way around. If the people want plug and play, convenience, and cheap, they get what they ask for along with all the watering down that goes with it. It comes at the same cost as do all things that are diminished in their quality for the sake of mass production and profit. Its an abundantly hypocritical argument to say that PC users are selfish to want to preserve what is left of something that is/can be better. Whether directly or indirectly, the rise of console gaming kills off the things that were good about PC gaming, and blends everything into a bland, uniform gruel in a closed system that walks along the line of mediocrity.

Just accept that your taking the back seat,and move on,shouldn't be too hard.

[Cayal]

So Sweeeeeeeeeet

But only if small mods are free and big ones cost some money

[Eric Hayes]

Just accept that your taking the back seat,and move on,shouldn't be too hard.

Idiotic statement, since it can be applied to you console players.
Accept PC has mods and move on.

I personally dislike settling for something less, which a console is.