[Luna Lovegood]

How dare we want our game experience heightened because you don't feel like letting the console community have mods. How selfish of us.


works both ways friend :brokencomputer:

Because console players are NOT the ones that will make the mods, why should you reap the benefits?

I am already sick and tired of BGS skimping on PC when it comes to graphics cause, we don't matter since we are just 10% (random, unsubstantiated figure thrown out).

A lot of the mods deals with textures etc, that alone would mean programs such as Photoshop (several hundred dollars in cost), I doubt a console player would do that, then they wouldn't really play on the couch in the first place.
If they were so into mods then they would be playing on PC, not consoles.

It's not like all of a sudden a bunch of 360 players would know how to make the mods that modders make for PC in an instant.
What would happen is that the mods created for PC would be made available for the consoles.

Unless of course BGS is going to make some kind of creation kit (modkit) for consoles, how I don't know and if they could , FINE.
But if that means in any way that PC will get some half-assed modkit, it would be pretty sad.

[^~LIL B0NE5~^]

To be honest, i'm pretty sure they will say no, don't want to burst anyone's bubble or be mean, but you know some unknowing person will download a 4000 x 4000 texture pack and set it up on his console, burn out the machine and start sending consoled back in RMAs for repair or replacement, when warranty dispatches start skyrocketing, MS and Sony will either take the decision to ban the action and make it void warranties, or releas updates to block this from happening. my guess is they know this might happen. not from lack of competence from the average gamers, but from knowing select ignorants will try things they shouldn't.

[Jason White]

I can only offer a solid, logical defense when logic is given in the proposal.
I've stated it like uh..9 times now? Microsoft. Has nothing. To do. With. The PC. Creation. Kit. Microsoft cannot tell you what you CAN and CANNOT make for the PC VERSION OF SKYRIM.
Do you want me to puree it for you? Baby bites? There you go.

If content made on the Creation Kit is approved to appear on a console owned by MS, then yes they do have influence over said program. BGS would have to be the ones to actually agree to their demands, and be the ones to actually do the limiting, but because the code/content generated from that program is to be used on MS systems, MS will have things to say about it. No one is saying that MS will program the CK if it is to be used on consoles. The discussion and arrangements made between BGS and MS could likely prompt BGS to make different decisions to accommodate their business partner in order to get the mods to the consoles. Dumb enough for you to understand now?

[Matthew Warren]

No. Just no. I wasn't talking about just texture packs I was talking overall textures in the mods. Most mods use textures at higher resolutions. And I highly doubt most mod makers would make a mod TWICE just to give PC users a HD port. "Modders who want to make areas that require more power to run smoothly won't restrict themselves not to do it." Yes. Yes, they will. Have you not heard of something called console gaming? Have you not seen the difference in genres between console and PC? There is a reason MMOs are on PC you know.

Thats the reason this is a bad idea, most mods would become ports for console or ports for pc and thus suffer in quality.

If you want to use mods just get a PC and a 360 Controller.

:thumbsup: Exactly. If someone wants to use mods so badly there already exists today a perfectly viable option to accomplish that which doesn't involve endangering the quality of mods being produced and the mod community itself.

[{Richies Mommy}]

Actually the fact we get a modding kit at all is nothing but a courtesy from BGS to the PC community. Its not like they have a obligation to give it to us. So complaining about possible delays is kind of selfish when they don't even have to.

NO IT IS NOT.

I hate it when people say stupid stuff like this. Its the equivalent of saying "Oh well Mcdonalds didn't put a burger patty on my Hamburger, I guess I should be glad they even gave me a burger at all."

Bethesda is a company. Companies exist because of their consumers, not the other way around. If we want to whine and cry about how a feature didn't make it, we can. Why? Because WE FUNDED THE GAME.

[Andrea Pratt]

NO IT IS NOT.

I hate it when people say stupid stuff like this. Its the equivalent of saying "Oh well Mcdonalds didn't put a burger patty on my Hamburger, I guess I should be glad they even gave me a burger at all."

Bethesda is a company. Companies exist because of their consumers, not the other way around. If we want to whine and cry about how a feature didn't make it, we can. Why? Because WE FUNDED THE GAME.

10% of it apparently.

[Killah Bee]

I can only offer a solid, logical defense when logic is given in the proposal.
I've stated it like uh..9 times now? Microsoft. Has nothing. To do. With. The PC. Creation. Kit. Microsoft cannot tell you what you CAN and CANNOT make for the PC VERSION OF SKYRIM.
Do you want me to puree it for you? Baby bites? There you go.

wow.........just wow...You never stop Shino. not even limited to this thread

hey hey check this out.


They can't regulate what we make, but they can regulate what goes online on PSN/XBL as well as what accesses their consoles, you start bringing in 3rd party scripts and talking about "hacking" the console, you will be Godsmacked by Sony and Microsoft. you saw what happend we people unlocked/modded back on the explicit content in San andreas? or the unrendered mammaries in Oblivion? yeah expect that x100, the results I mean.

[Yvonne]

If content made on the Creation Kit is approved to appear on a console owned by MS, then yes they do have influence over said program. BGS would have to be the ones to actually agree to their demands, and be the ones to actually do the limiting, but because the code/content generated from that program is to be used on MS systems, MS will have things to say about it. No one is saying that MS will program the CK if it is to be used on consoles. The discussion and arrangements made between BGS and MS could likely prompt BGS to make different decisions to accommodate their business partner in order to get the mods to the consoles. Dumb enough for you to understand now?

Everything you just said is an assumption. And that assumption is based on assuming that the PC version of the Creation Kit, the SAME one that would make mods for the PC, would be the same thing that makes mods for the console.
How do you know that there wont be a separate creation kit for console only mods? Where is your proof FOR, or AGAINST it?
I have no proof for what I'm saying either. It's all assumption. But so is everything you're saying.
Why are your assumptions>mine? Lets use some common sense here. You're being a PC elitist and I'm trying to open the playing field here. You say NO! to console mods, I say, meh, it could happen.
Yet your NO! is based purely off assumption, the same thing that I am basing my "meh" off.
Woooo. Logic is hard to understand. :twirl:

[Andrew Tarango]

This is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. Thanks.



You can have mods. Go buy the PC version. Viola. You now can use mods.

But some of os don't have those good computers. Some of us don't like using damn keyboards and mouse and some of us like to play on flat screen tv!

[jodie]

I smell an E3 reveal.

[Rachel Cafferty]

Everything you just said is an assumption. And that assumption is based on assuming that the PC version of the Creation Kit, the SAME one that would make mods for the PC, would be the same thing that makes mods for the console.
How do you know that there wont be a separate creation kit for console only mods? Where is your proof FOR, or AGAINST it?
I have no proof for what I'm saying either. It's all assumption. But so is everything you're saying.
Why are your assumptions>mine? Lets use some common sense here. You're being a PC elitist and I'm trying to open the playing field here. You say NO! to console mods, I say, meh, it could happen.
Yet your NO! is based purely off assumption, the same thing that I am basing my "meh" off.
Woooo. Logic is hard to understand. :twirl:

So you are vehemently arguing against a position you think is neither stronger nor weaker than your own? And you think other people need to learn how to debate? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones you know. And, the argument you provide is "oh, it could happen and be just great"... The first time I think you've mentioned a rational solution is in this post, many posts after the debate was started. Separate Kits for PC/console is an actual potential solution to the issue, but even still is also a baseless assumption.

My assumptions are based on precedent. In order to get their non-modded content onto all 3 systems, they are dumbing down what the PC would otherwise be capable of. So why should it be any different for them to get modded content onto all 3 platforms? The game could be way better off the shelf if they only supported the PC platform, but in order to get it into consoles, they make sacrifices and limit their efforts. Its not a baseless assumption, or a hard line of logic to follow, that this can be extrapolated to other things besides the base release.

[Zosia Cetnar]

But some of os don't have those good computers.

Putting together a computer that will run a highly mod'ed OB or Skyrim isn't hard or all that expensive. If you literally can not afford it, and I mean literally not just you don't want to, I feel for you. But if that is the case I doubt you'd be wasting money on a console and buying brand new games anyways.

Some of us don't like using damn keyboards and mouse and some of us like to play on flat screen tv!

Then you have other priorities that are more important to you than mods. Have fun on the console. To me, mods are more important so I don't get to play on my giant flat screen. I play on my medium sized flatscreen. :teehee:

[JERMAINE VIDAURRI]

But some of os don't have those good computers. Some of us don't like using damn keyboards and mouse and some of us like to play on flat screen tv!

Get a controller and hook your computer up to your TV. Oh also computers would cost the same as a console if you simply upgraded the computer you have probably already bought. (most people have household computers)

[Tanika O'Connell]

I'm not seeing the problem. Why do you feel the PC version needs to be superior? Why can't other people enjoy mods like we do? It won't take anything away from your experience.

When developers refer to us as the "other 10%" of the market, when all the developers turn to consoles for everything in profit and neglect to make use of the PC and it's capabilities cause we are just the 10%.
Then this is our last thing, it is not about being better, it's about having 1 thing left.
We ARE the modders, not console jockies, why should PC players make the mods and then console players just "ride the wave"?

We can't even have PC as lead platform for games anymore, which doesn't make sense since PC is MORE capable and you scale down to fit.
I am so tired of PC getting the shaft in everything to suit consoles, I know the money lays there, but modding isn't/ WASN'T about money it was about PC.

Take away this and PC has one less thing going for it for gaming.

I can just see how if this were to happen that it will all be orientated by BGS, MS and SONY to fit their needs.

As I mentioned earlier, if SONY and MS are interested it might even be delayed (modkit) .
I've already read how it went from "we will have modkit for PC" to ," we will try to get the modkit out in time for release".

For mods to be properly made you need to have a PC and many of the great modders need good programs, so as I said, most modders will by default be PC players, why should they cater to consoles.

I can also imagine a horrible scenario where modders get paid for specific mods that "fit" with consoles, so whoops most modders would focus on that.


Just one more thing to take away from PC gaming, that's how I see it.

[Katie Pollard]

The amount of pc gamers who were pissed in the comments here - http://www.escapistm...ods-on-Consoles
was facepalm inducing,seriously the only reason i could think of that pc gamers would be upset by this is ''bawwwwwww im no longer a special cupcake for having an expensive computer ;_;''

I hope they do get mods to work on console versions, everyone should be happy with that news.

[john page]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade here (well... I guess I'll be cheering up part of the PC crowd...), but this is flatly not happening. There is no way - NO WAY - that Sony and Microsoft will allow console users to freely edit content. Period. The only way that console users are going to be able to edit content at all is if Sony and Microsoft are the pipeline, and thus control it and profit off of it, and that's DLC.

They might - MIGHT - acquire distribution rights to a particularly popular mod and issue it as DLC, but I don't even see much chance of that. How could they justify charging console users for something that's a free download for PC users? And they're not going to do it any other way - there's simply no way that they will ever allow console users to freely edit content.

I would suspect, as well, that Todd Howard and Beth are fully aware of that........

[Suzie Dalziel]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade here, but this is flatly not happening. There is no way - NO WAY - that Sony and Microsoft will allow console users to freely edit content. Period. The only way that console users are going to be able to edit content at all is if Sony and Microsoft are the pipeline, and thus control it and profit off of it, and that's DLC.

They might - MIGHT - acquire distribution rights to a particularly popular mod and issue it as DLC, but I don't even see much chance of that. How could they justify charging console users for something that's a free download for PC users? And they're not going to do it any other way - there's simply no way that they will ever allow console users to freely edit content.

I would suspect, as well, that Todd Howard and Beth are fully aware of that........

Last time I checked, no one assumed this would be "free". :blink:
Of coarse we would have to pay for it. This is America. Breathing cost money.

[Shaylee Shaw]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade here, but this is flatly not happening. There is no way - NO WAY - that Sony and Microsoft will allow console users to freely edit content. Period. The only way that console users are going to be able to edit content at all is if Sony and Microsoft are the pipeline, and thus control it and profit off of it, and that's DLC.

They might - MIGHT - acquire distribution rights to a particularly popular mod and issue it as DLC, but I don't even see much chance of that. How could they justify charging console users for something that's a free download for PC users? And they're not going to do it any other way - there's simply no way that they will ever allow console users to freely edit content.

I would suspect, as well, that Todd Howard and Beth are fully aware of that........

In the end, I think you are absolutely correct here. MS and Sony aren't going to green light something they won't make a profit on.

[Petr Jordy Zugar]

Last time I checked, no one assumed this would be "free". :blink:
Of coarse we would have to pay for it. This is America. Breathing cost money.

If it's not free, it's not mods - it's DLC. Consoles already have DLC, so there would be no change.

[Kieren Thomson]

This leads into the other thing I wanted to mention and forgot. The negative impact this would have on an otherwise largely great mod'ing community for TES.

I can just see it now. All mod'ers like to have their work recognized, endorsed, talked about. It's part of the reward for doing what they do. The number of "PC only" mods would end up being so small as to be insignificant. The first great looking armor or sword mod you get out there with a really high poly count and/or large textures and you'd have 1,000 console kiddies there down ranking the mod and leaving comments like "ZOMGs this is teh worsts mod evah! It crashes my console" even if you put giant red letters on the d/l page "don't use this on the console". Mod'ers would feel obligated to make their mods cross-platform compatible to reach the widest audience inevitably leading to the exact decrease of quality and creativity I was talking about.

The day they allow mods on Xbox/PS would be a very sad day for TES and the mod community as a whole.

Negative. I don't think console users would have the option to download something off the marketplace that crashes their system. Bethesda would control what's uploaded to the marketplace.

Considering that, I don't think the number of pc mods will drop. Why should they? They're different kinds of mods.

[Lisha Boo]

If it's not free, it's not mods - it's DLC. Consoles already have DLC, so there would be no change.

Bethesda created DLC
User created DLC
I see a difference?

[Emma Parkinson]

Last time I checked, no one assumed this would be "free". :blink:
Of coarse we would have to pay for it. This is America. Breathing cost money.

What if I don't live in America.


Mods would utterly roflstomp the need for DLC, I'd rather that (since they aren't making expansions) and get mods if I were getting Skyrim for consoles that is.

[kirsty joanne hines]

Actually the fact we get a modding kit at all is nothing but a courtesy from BGS to the PC community. Its not like they have a obligation to give it to us. So complaining about possible delays is kind of selfish when they don't even have to.

I know that.

I am just saying that the way they are talking makes it sound that since we ARE such a small audience for them it seems they might not bother unless they can make it "worth their while", IE reaching the console market.

Do you understand what I mean?

I can also imagine that if they get some go ahead from MS and or Sony that modkit could be delayed cause they want to make it work for consoles.
PC has no major limitations for mods, we don't need smaller textures or less monsters in "martigen monster mod", consoles have limitations that is just a fact.
One couldn't just release the same mod that works for PC with high res textures which PC by default will have over consoles.

What about all the conflicts that mods usually create, how we use OBSE and all other tools to install and check for conflicts etc etc.

Who will make these mods for consoles? PC players? Why would they limit themselves?
Therefore the scariest scenario would be a nerfed and castrated modkit or something or as I said a big delay on the release of one.


One couldn't BGS leave well enough alone, console users were already aware of mods being PC specific and they choose to go for console or PC version in making that decision.
Now somehow BGS decide to bring consoles into the mix, why? To make more money? To use as some kind of incentive for more sales?
Why so philanthropic towards consoles when they can't be bothered to implement proper DX11 for the PC?

[meghan lock]

Negative. I don't think console users would have the option to download something off the marketplace that crashes their system. Bethesda would control what's uploaded to the marketplace.

Considering that, I don't think the number of pc mods will drop. Why should they? They're different kinds of mods.

And BGS is going to give ongoing support to decide which mods are eligible to be uploaded to the marketplace for what purpose to them? Nothing comes free... even TESNexus is paid for by ads, and that's just to host the site. You are going to pay developers ongoing salaries to QA, debug, wrap, and ship the mods with no incoming purchase revenue? LOL

[sam]

Good retort. You've made your point pretty clear. And that point is, "OH MY GOD I'M ON THE PC AND THERE'S NO WAY POSSIBLE THAT HAVING MODS FOR A CONSOLE CAN'T RUIN PC MODDING HERP DERP! ALSO, LOGIC? WUTS DAT?".
Well played, good sir. :goodjob:

No clue then; basically what this will mean is PC modders will split in those who mod for the PC (high rez textures, high poly objects, custom meshes, ini file manipulation, ect) and those modders will be targets by console gamers on sites like TESNEXUS and they'll go "waaaahhh this mod wont be on console this mod is gey" so PC only mods will have like 1 star.

Also bethesda could gimp the mod tools to limit certain things.

Theres huge amounts of issue's with this