Daggerfall had this.
It was awesome.

From Davii on the previous thread


The more I think about that... you are totally right! *cancels idea to preorder and buys a bag of dice + a random RP PHB*

I'll second that motion! The Daggerfall system was copied by a few games (that German one a few posts down for one). It obviously was popular, but I guess it made people think a bit too much during character creation. We can't have that now can we! Seriously, the first couple of character too an hour each to create. It was soooo much fun getting the balance right and getting the character I wanted. Please, please, please, bring this back!
:celebration:

Meh, i've pretty much stopped caring, Bethesda are taking a certain direction they won't back down from. I'll go along for the ride and see if they have a plan or just like removing "redundant" stuff.
But since they're pretty much making a new system I just wish they could create one fram scratch, abandon TES and make a completely new universe.

Anyway hopefully Skyrim will be a great game, though i'm certain it will be enjoyable.

What are you talking about? The most obvious solution to the ability to meta game and ruin your game a broken system is to scrap it completely and throw together some system derived from another game!

Seriously, I never once saw a problem with any of the old mechanics.

• If you chose to meta game in an rpg, you should expect the game to turn into an easy fps. That's not what RPG's are for. They're for immersion and adventure. Go for it, if you really want, but don't take away my system because you've made it too easy for yourself.
  
• I never once got half way through the game before I realised I wanted to play a mage. Who actually does that? That's ridiculous.
  
• Complexity and "Spread sheety"-ness have always been a great part of any RPG. It adds depth to the game.

I've always found perks to be cheap. Fallout seemed cheap to me, and got away with it for it's modern setting, but Oblivion's perks, even as minute as they where, felt cheap also.


And yes, I know I'm whiner/change is always a good thing/whatever else, and I don't really care. I've loved TES for what it is, and I don't want such drastic changes.

Are the changes that drastic though?

I mean, someone who loved Daggerfall might not love the Birthsigns as you do. The fact is, TES has NEVER had a dead set character creation system, its always different.
Yes Skyrim is perhaps a bit more removed from the other titles, but I hardly think its sacrilegious, for lack of a better word.

Its just different, from what has been said by the developers all the same mechanics are still in play, simply through different avenues. All it means is that you'll have to find different ways to use the systems, where for role playing or exploitation.

In my opinion, Oblivion had the most redundant character leveling system, due to the fact that it really didn't matter what you did the enemy was always going to be about the same. Unless you really stuffed it up.

The good effects of what was in before have been lifted up in a new form, and the bad ones taken away. Things also generally just make so much more sense. Before it was a terrible mess.
I'm grateful for this. Thanks Bethesda! :foodndrink:

Only thing I miss a little is birthsigns, mainly because of the unique feel they had to them, not what they actually did. Still, this has been moved to the "constellation-sky" instead, so it's not really a loss, which is great!

I'm not sure that the bad sides have been taken away, perhaps new bad features added? (We will have to wait and see).
I will agree that the Oblivion system was a complete mess though

Usually I would discourage whiners and complainers. And I would definitely buy a copy of Skyrim no matter what, even if the world ends. BUT! The OP is right. Sadly. It feels we're going to get much less of the "Elder Scrolls" this time.

I think everyone should just stop criticising the team's ideas and work when you haven't even played the game yet. These guys have been doing what they do for years.

If I can figure it out, I will put this post in my sig. You're exactly right. Too many people forming opinions on something they've got no information on and had no experience with.

You are what you are. Why should you judge a game before you try it out? Give these people a chance, they have been making awesome games for decades!
Oh also. I love that they took out attributes

For so far I know there only have been two games in the series where Birthsigns are being used, give them a try to do something else ...

For it will become Oblivion part Deux! and than people are also cyring ...

I liked birthsigns, just because you could pick one and say 'born under X'. Cool stuff. I hope they're still in as figure heads.

I looooove it when people are like "Good. Fine. I didn't like them anyway. Good day".

'll have yet again to disagree with these kind of opinions.

First of all, the attribute system had been changing way too much along the series without a definite good solution (as been pointed out by pro-attributers). When a system has been used so much without seeing real definite improvements, it's time to scrap it.



1. Incorrect. One does NOT lead to the other. I can have a game without "your system" without making it easier, or turning it into and FPS (I absolutely hate this argument), If the way Skyrim is doing is the right way? I'll have to see, maybe E3 can shed some light on the issue, but just because you're used to this system doesn't mean anything different is a worse choice.

2. The complain was not about the role you're playing, but the choices in major/minor skills, that limited you should you, say 20-30 minutes into the game, you decided that the role you started as wasn't in accord to the one you were now leaning to. The new system hopefully prevents that, while keeping the feeling of choice and consequence when setting a path for you character.

3. It does add depth. But it also adds unnecessary complication to something that can be redone with a system more organic/streamlined that adds the same amount of depth, applied differently, with less complications. Note: Complexity isn't an exclusive trait of "spreadheety"-ness. You can have complexity with any kind of system as long as it's well done.




Fallout seemed CHEAP??? I loved Fallout 2 (never played 1) perks, that made your play style vary so much depending on your choices. Fallout 3 doesn't stray away that much from it's predecessor in terms of perks. You clearly don't see the good that a perk system can bring.

Well it seems someone needs to read beyond what they feel like in a post. I said it fit with the theme of the game. Fallout isn't as much about the RPG-ness at TES (not that that's a bad thing), and the fact that I can suddenly make enemies explode/cause a nuclear explosion when I'm low on health is generally fine n dandy by me.

But I don't want TES to turn into WoW/Final Fantasy/whatever. The overdramatic moves I can perform on some of the other "RPG's" are just silly. I don't want it in TES. THAT'S my fear.

I think you'll find Skyrim will be halfway between what you fear, and what we currently have.

I'd consider the Fallout franchise more hardcoe rpg than TES.

Hey boys and girls - I haven't yet had my coffee so I am cranky! This is not a Fallout thread, so get back on topic. And while on the topic of churning up angst and agita about gameplay no one but the developers have seen and making wild ass assumptions on how it will be, make sure you stay civil - discuss the posts and ideas, don't attack the person.

I am glad that Classes are gone as they were restrictive. The only problem that I can see is that I can't use all 18 skills now like I could in Oblivion where I could use all 21 and only need to worry about the 7 major skills. Now all skills are majors and I still can get them all up to 100 if I wanted to, I just can't get every perk which is ok more choices is a good thing.

I've played the entire series and still fail to see the problem. People look for problems far too much and Skyrim is hardly the first RPG I';; have played that didn't have a formal class system and just let actual character development determine what my character is like. With the limited perk system, Skyrim's characters will be MORE specialized, not less, just so you know. There are 280 perks. There's no way you'll be able to get them all with the soft level cap being 50 and the hard level cap very possibly being no more than around 70 and far more difficult to achieve. In addition, birthsigns were useless. Honestly, they serve little function and the first two Elder Scrolls games did fine without them. Daggerfall did much better without them, but that's another story altogether.

Oh this never ends... :facepalm:

Why? Instead of limiting yourself at the beginning it will limit you at the end, as there's an upper limit how much perk you can get, even without the perk limit.

It's not about drastic changes in your class, like how you want to go from a warrior to a wizard, but more like from a warrior to a spellsword.
I tend to think at the beginning "which one will I use more, alteration or mysticism?", now those skills will progress more naturally.

Well then it won't be replicated in such manner as it would go against this natural progression I mentioned earlier.
Picking attributes would be basically picking your class.

Good thing they'll be back as actual flavor this time!

Again, everything comes to one thing. Being able to create your character from the very beginning. This game takes a different approach, instead of doing it at the beginning, your character progresses and evolves during gameplay.
Is this better or worse? Hard to tell at this point, it will all matter in the execution.

Not liking the idea itself? Can't help you there, wait until they mod everything back in... :rolleyes:

TES has always been a RPG where you BUILD your character at the very beginning of the game in the way that you want to play that game.

This unique character build (which, in the previous games, have included things like Race, Gender, Class, and Birthsign DIFFERENCES) represents your character's Abilities at that point in their life . . . which is at age 20 or 30 or whatever (not when you were born).

Your abilities at the beginning of the game should consist of your inherent Attributes (that won't change much) and your Learned Skills (which should improve as you level up). Attributes should define your character's inherent strengths and weaknesses . . . giving your character a bonus in one area, means that you have to give yourself a penalty in another area.

The problem is that too many people hate having any limitations on their character . . . yet these same people state that OB's character build was broken, because of how they were able to max out all their skills.

So do you want limits or not? You cannot have it both ways.

If any other company made this game, people would be raving about all the feature there are. But since it's Bethesda, people are raving about all the features that aren't.

Feels bad, man.

another topic about your griping about a game you dont know a whole heck of alot about?really?