I'm aware. I don't really place Bethesda games on some platter and praise them as being the holy grail within the franchise. I enjoyed Morrowind for what it was, I enjoyed Oblivion for what it was, and I enjoyed Skyrim for what it was. It doesn't mean I am numb to the very features that hurt the experience.

I used to differentiate between the two franchises. I looked to the TES series because of it's rich over-world which told little stories across the landscape, and it's ample supply of dungeon-diving gameplay which rewarded you with some incredible loot. I looked to the Fallout series for it's rich variation and approach to quests and dialogue, and how it embedded into the very ending of the game. Seeing how your actions paved the wasteland was fun.

Overtime, I've had the desire to see the two come together, culminate, and share the strong concepts across both games. I.e. TES having a stronger, more involved quest/dialogue system that takes the player's choices and skill sets into consideration, and Fallout having a more rich over world that's driven by Bethesda's environmental story telling and dungeon diving experience.

What Bethesda has done for Fallout 4 is half-baked. They've taken the best elements of Skyrim and thrown them into Fallout 4 at the cost of quests that don't boil down to run-n-gun shoot outs, and at the cost of perk checks. Worse yet, they've taken the unique loot (weapons/armor) that we all craved from dungeon diving, and replaced it with a legendary item system that undermines even items rewarded to you by quest givers. There's like, three unique items in the game, 2 of which come from the Railroad, and 1(2 if you count looting the Rail Rifle from the RR) of which from the Brotherhood of Steel. I don't look forward to exploring in this game anymore because there's nothing to earn from dungeon-diving outside of collecting a [censored] load of scrap for your settlements, a magazine, or a bobblehead.

At least when I entered a dungeon in Morrowind, I could look forward to the notion that there was going to be some kind of rare piece of loot at the end of the ride. Hell, even though Skyrim threw out static loot completely, they still retained some unique items like the Daedric Artifacts and multiple unique items that could be earned from guilds (note I'm not talking about things like aegisbane or items that were essentially a vanilla weapon with an enchantment).

None of that is in Fallout 4.

Yep, totally no unique weapons or armors in Fallout 4, be it from dungeons, or shops, or quest rewards.

http://i.imgur.com/OKpqXpX.png

You literally cannot read.

A lot of those have same effects you get off Legendary mobs, not to mention a lot of them are purchasable, not just found.

Also, how do raiders recruit chief? How do gunners recruit? how did McCready join the Gunners? For being KoS they sure talk a lot about recruiting btw...and always seem to be in the process of recruiting, so how do they do it, seeing how my character hasn't been able to figure it out to join em..

No they can't recruit the player, that would involve logic and consistency in the game world. We need to make sure the player has enough things to shoot at, just in case Preston Gravey's radiant shoot fests aren't enough.

Granted I haven't beaten Fallout 4 in its entirety, but still there are plenty of unique items you can find in the game that aren't involved in quests like Gronaks Axe/costume, Alien Blaster, Cyrolator or Kremvh's tooth that you do get from exploring. Then there is also the Broadsider although that is tied to the USS constitution quest. I think the problem is there isn't a whole lot of base weapons and armour to begin with which inevitably leads to less unique weapons as well.

Legendary monsters and items are stupid I agree. If you got this one rookie Raider who is harder to take down than his boss then why isn't he the boss. Also humans mutating, wtf?

Like I said

"be it from dungeons, or shops, or quest rewards."

As stated before, they go out and recruit those they want to. You don't go to them, they come to you. No raider group or serious merc organization is just going to take in any random schmuck that walks up to their base. They are raiders, not a charity group for the homeless.

No you're right, I forgot about those. Largely, because I don't ever do melee play-throughs or utilize heavy weapons at all. I wish they had done something similar for automatic weapons.

Well the game differs. McCready obviously sought out the Gunners. From raider talk and logs, it is clear that recruits "come to them". Some of them then put the recruits into a series of initiations. Jake obviously approached the Forged, and they didn't shoot him on sight, and he is the very definition of a schmuck.

Also, how do they know who isn't a schmuck when they are on these hypothetical raider recruiting tours? Is there a Raider Weekly magazine I'm missing out on? Anyway, clearly people come to them, is documented many, many times in game. The minuteman guy who approached the Gunners, one of those Gunners, the female, was an ex-raider. Raider dialogue in game talking about a guy gonna leave the crew to go join another crew(Libertalia). So, the game says you are wrong. Not to mention the raiders also don't just murder people, they kidnap them and ask for ransom, which we get a lot of with our radiant quests and rescue missions, and other such activity, along with the tolls and working arrangement with Bunker Hill. But, they sure like to KOS us!! must be the aura our character emits that sends them into a violent rage!!

You would think the Forged guy would kinda ask you to join, seeing how you wipe out the majority of his crew to get to the point where you get to confront him. He doesn't even have a gang anymore, may as well ask the person who killed em all to join(obviously not a schmuck). Nope.

Honestly, Fallout New Vegas without DLCs wasn't really all that much different from Fallout 4 when it came to taking base weapons, adding a new skin color, adjusting a few attributes and giving it a fancy name either.

Spray'n' Pray which is a submachine gun is my favorite unique automatic weapon to use at the moment. However, the idiotic merchant that sells it dies pretty easily so it's likely many people may never get a chance to buy it.

-MacCready got into the gunners because he had already established a rep as a good sharpshooter merc beforehand,

-Jake brought the shishkebob, and they were still considering killing him anyways.

-The Minutemen guy only got into The Gunners because he sold out The Minutemen in Quincy.

-Going from one raider crew to another isn't the same thing, because they are already established as raiders.

Basically all the instances you listed are special case scenarios where the person had some Intel, or an established rep, before they were let in, that are you are removing all context for.

Emphasis on player choice is not *the* definition or even the prime characteristic of an RPG. *Some* RPGs have it, but not all. Not by a long shot.

Nevertheless, my second character is making different choices or coming across completely different things and experiencing different results, so the idea that Fallout 4 has *none* is hogwash. I suspect some people here haven't been playing the game in-depth and therefore miss a great deal.

I didn't like the lack of visually unique items in FNV, at all. I just want progression in the series. I want the next iteration to be bigger and better to a point that there can't be a comparison in, for example, how many guns the game has.

How did Gunners know of McCready rep as a sharpshooter(he is from the capital wasteland)? The minuteman still approached them without getting shot on sight. How would Libertalia know if some guy was an "established raider" lmao. I can put on raider armor, too, why that not work as qualification? Also, again, LOGS IN THE GAME say recruits are coming to them, and some of them are obviously not "established raiders" if you read the logs.

But, I think I found the cut clip of the sole survivor and preston garvey watching the raider recrtuitment line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcokL59jeqU

If raiders magically know about others raiders reps, why wouldn't they know my rep of being the bad ass who took down other raider groups?

-The same way everyone else would know? When people start doing lots of jobs for people, and doing them well, word gets around.

-He likely surrendered to the Gunners beforehand.

-How do any of the raiders know of any of the other raider clans? Word gets around when raiders start doing stuff.

-Same reason putting on fiend armor in New Vegas doesn't magically make all the fiends not attack you. You can wear the clothes, but that doesn't mean you can act the act.

-[citation needed]

-How could they know you were the one who knocked off the other raider clans when you leave no one alive to describe who it was who killed them? Not to mention the fact that knocking off a raider clan would just makes you more of an enemy to other raider clans, as they would assume you were after them next.

I'm sure you know the logs.

Word doesn't get around about your character though? I doubt McCready leaving people alive, either, so dunno how word got around about him.

Also, on a lot of those raider quests, you don't have to kill them all, only one specific raider(or a couple) must be killed, then quest over and you can jet.

Raider clans in game fight each other, too.

Funny how word can get around about everyone but your character. They don't even give you the option before opening fire. Kill 5 of them and they don't surrender. Face it, if a person wanted to play as a raider or a merc or a gunner, the game just doesn't let you and it is poor design, because if someone wanted to hard enough, they could/should be able to do it, even if it required building up a "rep" in order to do so(which if that was the case I be fine with).

I agree with the OP on some points, mainly inventory management and the radiant quest system.

Ending slides...not so much. As some people already mentioned having DLCs the new normal for video games, and developers design games specifically with them in mind. What if the epilogue was reserved for the last expansion? We don't want a repeat of Mass Effect 3 ending and then DLCs that transport you back in time, or as others mentioned a DLC that invalidates the ending ala Broken Steel.

If all we want then is a recap of our actions, then I think it would be much better off presenting it in-game rather than slides. I don't know about you but slides give me the vibe of closure. At this point it's clear vanilla FO4 is not supposed to be the end of our SS's Commonwealth adventures.

-Nope haven't seen them TBH. All I have seen are logs were raiders talk about raiding other raider groups and the like, or how they kidnapped some other raider's sister to hostage her for food.

-It does, but you don't take the kinds of jobs that makes you a Gunner material though.

-Raiders update their knowledge of if other raider clans got wiped out even without quests. The quests have nothing to do with it. And all of their comments indicate they have no idea who did it.

-Never said they didn't.

-Word does get around about your character, its all over the radio. Its nothing raiders care for though.

-They have no reason too. They are raiders, they raid anyone who isn't them unless they are running a toll scheme at the moment.

-OFC they don't, that just means when they kill you there are less people to split the loot between.

-Actually no they shouldn't, and New Vegas shows why.

The Powder Gangers busted out of their cells in NCRCF, kicked the NCR out, and have been doing raids along the highway. Eddie mentions he knows the NCR are likely planning something to take back the prison but despite that

A. Dawes still lets any random [censored] from the wasteland in, after they pay 100 caps(because apparently they know the face of everyone in the NCR, and can spot an NCR spy a mile off or something)

B. After letting you in, no one takes your weapons, no one forces you to talk to Eddie before leaving, and no one makes you take any sort of real oath that you wont sell them out.(because its impossible that the NCR could be like, scouting out their position or anything)

C. Then, after talking to Eddie, he send you on a series of tasks to prove your worth... but doesn't send anyone along with you to watch(because they are just THAT trustworthy of guys for some reason.)

D. THEN, after doing those tasks no one saw you do, or can verify you accomplished, Eddie sends the complete new guy to see what the NCR are planning, which is a major operation for them.

E. All of this leads to the player ultimately being able to betray Eddie and help the NCR take the Prison.

And all of this could have been avoided if the Powder Gangers acted like any half-way sane raider group, like those in Fallout 4, and instead just

A. Shot any idiot coming near their hideout to make sure they couldn't report on them.

B. Sent their own men to do all these small tasks to ensure they got done.

C. Sent their own guys, since its impossible that everyone in the NCR knows the face of every person who was in the prison, to check on what the NCR was doing, ensuring they got enough warning to properly repel the NCR's attack.

Basically "I fought the Law" is every reason why its beyond [censored] for any sort of raider clan or merc group to just let any random waster even REMOTELY near their basses, let alone join their groups, or do anything of value for them within in amount of time that the player would have actually played the game. Its a testament to everything wrong with your idea.

I think most raider groups recruit by either kidnapping children and brainwash them or in the case of more extreme groups like the Forged, make them go through crazy and depraved trials to "prove" themselves. Very rarely will a raider group accept anyone except to outright use them and later them discard them once their usefulness is finished.

It was a good game. Just not what I expect from BGS.

Here is what I personally though they got wrong, attributing to their lowest scoring game in history (and getting walloped by Witcher3 in GOTY count like never before):

• Terrible dialogue system. Few choices. Little consequences. Almost no attribute/skill checks.


• Can't really RolePlay as much as other BGS/FO games. Yeah, less than FO3 some how. Ugh.


• Super annoying MMO radiant quests. (I feel like these were what I did most of my hours of FO4. Just thinking about me makes me puke.)


• The worst first-person melee combat I've played in a video game. (ouch).


• Lack of cool and varied weapons/armor.


• Most easymode imbalanced/broken BGS game to date, and that is saying a lot since all their games are pretty face roll imbalanced. Just in other games you had to kinda go out of your way to do it, in this game you are handed god hood on a gold platter even on "Survival" mode. Game is mostly designed for casuals I guess?


• Below average writing and companions.


• Lone Wanderer >>>> Companions. They just svck and get in the way, but this time that perk makes it an easy choice to toss the idiots away.

Hopefully for TES6 they try to strive for greatness again. None of their previous games really had as many painful gameplay issues as FO4.

If you looking by review aggregate it has pretty much the same score as Morrowind. Higher in the case of Metacritic lol.

Fallout 3 was the only game made by BGS besides Morrowind where choice matters and had attribute/skill checks so yea from that it was definitely a step down.

Well Oblivion and Fallout 3 were the only BGS games that weren't "Kill, loot, return" so yup again a step down from Fallout 3

We are talking about the same developer that made Morrowind right?

Meanwhile, the other side of the internet is complaining about the game being too difficult even on normal. If you wanna talk overpowered, nothing beats basic spell crafting and alchemy in Morrowind, nevermind the sheer amount of reflecting and resist items that basically rendered you invincible and watch enemies kill themselves. If we are talking underpowered than Oblivion would be Bethesda' most unbalanced game which ironically came as a result of them trying to balance it. Enemies basically becoming more powerful and better equipped as you level up.... in spite of the fact that you don't necessarily level up because of combat-related skills and thus enemies become straight sponge fest that deal massive damage to your character.

So those bland and samey cookie cutter Skyrim Companions are better? I would say Fallout 4 probably has the best writing Bethesda's has done since Oblivion, which granted isn't saying much. I've yet to see anything as cringeworthy stupid and nonsensical in Fallout 4 than the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild storylines which were both pretty amazing in Oblivion.

The Billy quest was probably the most stupid thing I've seen in Fallout 4 so far, but even then, there is at least some justification for that.

I've had a bit too much Egg nog(mix mine with jack daniels. merry Xmas), but again, just cuz you lack creativity my friend doesn't mean it is impossible.

Need I repeat also I have never said NV was perfection(I give vanilla NV a 7-8, but with DLC a solid 9/9.5, cuz they were damn good).

Want to join a Merc Group or raider group and "prove yourself" then you take this into consideration. Upon asking to join you are put through tests(now, imo there should be multiple ways to complete quests, even using your wits to fool them, which could be used for a quest to turn on said raider group).

But, lets pretend this is legit. I want to be a raider.

Enter Raider companion, who comes with you to make sure you aren't a piece of crap. Even without a follower the missions could require proof. Scalps, people's heads, certain gear(in FO 1 this was a person's specific item for the skullz gang in junktown, for the khans it was cold blooded murder of unarmed women right in front of them to witness). There are plenty of ways this can be done. Plenty, and more realistic than FONV. I prefer scalps and heads myself, but specific items are always good, too. So, yes, sure is possible(and again, a lot of them don't seem to put their recruits through such measures, but hey, I'm willing to let it slide for the PC). Also, you have to prove yourself to thieves guild and DB in Skyrim, and they don't have someone up your butt the whole time making sure you did it and still accept you. Guess it is possible in BGS games..go figure.

Also, if you leave people alive, just another way the game doesn't actually reflect your actions(Ie. if I leave some alive then they would know who it was, especially if I wearing my V111 suit eh?)

Also, if raider clans fight each other why would they accept a dude from another raider clan who potentially been fighting and killing their own(which was a reason u said they wouldn't want the SS to join, as the SS been killing raiders. Well, raiders kill raiders, and raiders change affiliation, hence my point).

As far as Gunners go, I would say wiping out raiders and Super Mutants is pretty good candidacy for membership, seeing how mercs just need to prove themselves in a fight. Having rep of a good fighter is all that is needed, and mercs need medics and what not, too, so that is another thing that would be useful, especially a quality combat medic. Anyway, there plenty of missions like this in game, seeing how vast majority are go to X and kill X. That is all the rep you need.

You should read the Corvega plant logs, that guy accepting all kinds of new recruits especially with his chem experiment. The brewery guy also gets a bunch of new recruits after they start getting food. The forged dude should just let you join, or at least ask, seeing how you wiped out all his gang.

But, regardless, you can prove yourself, just like your prove yourself to slavers in FO 3 by enslaving people(Which taking settlers hostage could be another way you prove yourself to raiders in FO 4). Many options.

The problem with that is that, ignoring how implausible it is, doing so would make you unable to complete the game as no faction or city would want to work with you.

It would be like joining The Master in Fallout 1, or joining the Enclave in Fallout 2, or joining Elijah in New Vegas, it would basically only result in an automatic game over joke ending about how the SS became a super edge lord, and nothing really got done besides maybe the BoS/Institute going to war with no conclusive result.

"Combat largely unchanged"

Wut? Did the author not check out the gun play?

Again it isn't implausible, if it was, Raiders would never get any recruits, and raiders wouldn't exist in the first place. Obviously, for whatever reason, people seek them out to join them, even though say they could join a settlement or join a merc group(gunners or another), join the minutemen, go live in DC and get a job....whatever.

Also, you say no faction would want to work with you, yet you can run around killing every innocent that you can kill in the game, and they will still work with you. What exactly is the difference, they will work with a psychopathic murder but not a raider?(which means you basically saying the state of the game as it exists is implausible)

You could add a feature where you keep your raider identity a mystery, by wearing a sack hood.(similar to the grey fox in Oblivion).

Also, while it would and should keep your from say joining the Minutemen, it really doesn't seem like it should factor much with the Institute(they did employ Kellogg and in a way you basically replace him), or even the BoS..or even the Railroad really(as long as you still sympathetic towards synths).

Creativity bud.

Also, joining a raider group or slavers or Gunners or another merc group is nothing like joining the Master or Enclave, as both those factions had end goals of dominating or killing all humans, goals that raiders, mercs, slavers do not have. They are basically making a cap.