Was true until Valve started allowing refunds

Bethesda games aren't so bad because you know that at some point the modding community will fix it

Arkham Knight on the other hand you screwed

Hey Zaria, long time no "see"

Would you have any links to sources on that "mined" data on sales? Mainly just curious. We've had a few discussions in the Skyrim forums lately and I posted some stuff referring to numbers that ultimately trace back to VGChartz which concluded that PC sales were only ~10% or less. Having now heard from several other users, and also examined the "literature" of claims on sales more generally, I can see that, those numbers are pretty suspect. Steam.spy has numbers I know, but are those really any better? The author of that site even states that his numbers are prone to considerable error.

Anyway, just curious what the "best" sources you know of are.

I support this post. The UI is even more anti-pc than previous xbox interface.

There was something similar with Ubisoft (they also hate pc's) but there total sales of assassin creed and other titles released that year showed that the pc was only 4 % or something behind the PS4 in terms of sales. I highly doubt PC is only 10 % of Fallout 4 sales :!) those are outdated sources. The common consensus is that PC sales are holding there own against PS4 and Xbox.

Just again (because I mention this on every post to increease visibility )

Fallout 4 : -Terrible bad key-binds and hard-coded keys awkward for left handers and people with other keyboards than Qwerty.

-No VSync in graphic Options, No gamme adjustement and No FOV adjustement (yeah the guns are a bit on the big size taking way too much screen up imo).

-Engine Physics still locked to Frame rate, rendering the experience a bit weird if you want to unlock frames to play on a 144hz Monitor.

-Weird UI for crafting and such (But mods will correct this)

Edit : Update sorry it was 7 % behind PS4

And thats for a company that releases mainly console oriented games... so ...

For this game, I suspect the PC user base is higher then 10%. Just like Skyrim (which last I check was sitting at around 25%). Look at the sales of Skyrim on Steam. That's a lot of money Beth is not going to leave on the table. Not to mention, what drove the sales of Skyrim for years after release were the mods. Skyrim for the PC is still selling.

This whole idea to release the game and rely on the modders to fix it is insulting.

Skyrim was similar. Remember the PC UI for Skyrim? Horrible. And then, SkyUI (and SKSE) hit and everyone forgot about the [censored] PC UI. I suspect the same will happen here.

But it shouldn't be this way.

Even if PC games were to drop dramatically in sales I reckon it would be because more and more companies seem to disfavor that platform. It becomes sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy - "See, we told you no one is gaming on PC anymore!"

Yeah, but only because PC games aren′t optimized, you know. And people may eventually get tired of it and abandon it even if they didn′t want to.

Most of Skyrim PC sales happened after launch. It remained in the top 10/20 list on Steam for over a year after launch. And it's still selling. And to date, there are over 45k mods. That's why Skyrim was a huge hit.

Folks, if you can't deal with the current state of the game I'd advise to put it down and wait 6 months. The script extender has already been announced. So the UI mods are on the way.

I know you shouldn't have to wait. But it is what it is. An Beth isn't gonna do [censored] about it. Remember that when next time they want you to pre-order.

And because the guys and gals who make SKSE and SkyUI _love_ what they do, they are probably already hard at work . . . erm, I mean "play!"

As long as you don't have unrealistic expectations, it isn't really a bad dynamic.

I'm running the game on a 21:9 display (2560x1080 single display) and only issue I've noticed is that power armors' display filter thingy is only 1920 wide. Doesn't affect gameplay at all really. I haven't tried playing with Eyefinity yet though so I can't say how things are with multiple monitors.

It is a bit of a Catch-22. If you are an early consumer, you are likely to feel "annoyed" by PC games. If you are not an early consumer/complainer then you are "part of the problem." I cannot disagree with that.

But lets not fall prey to the false notion that it is specific either to Bethesda, or to game software, or even to software or even to consumer products. Low quality control is probably at an all time high in most industries that are not under the authority of the FDA! ! (and no, I'm not a statist, but I do appreciate that most drugs and food I buy are thoroughly quality controlled).

If anything, I get the impression that "Meh, still bugs? Well it is at least 80% done and works in 90% of user contexts . . . good enough for government work" is the standard across most software development (with some exceptions such as telecommunications operations, and certain productivity software). I guessed that Win 10 would be a mess, and plan to be a VERY late adopter (if ever) and so far my suspicions have been confirmed.

More false claims...

- BGS used the standard setup today. 1920x1080 HD. Same trhing as any developer, now and in the past (i.e., they always use what the majority of the market has even if some people have something else).

- Mouse pointer is perfectly accurate for me and millions of other players. Then again, we are playing at 1920x1080 HD so maybe that is your problem... note that, YOUR problem, not BGS'.

- UI is basically a simple version of the common mods that totally remove the entire UI due to peop[le complaining about the UI always offering too much info in the past and "breaking immersion". Blame the market, not BGS, since this is basically BGS' attempt to meet such demands halfway.

- I've seen no trouble with key binding, even for reserved keys. Simply assign them to a mouse button you like and done.

- Nothing really has full installation from disc anymore, not even OSes and productivity software. Nothing new here and BGS is merely following what has already become the norm in the marketplace. Note how many people commented about not remembering when the last time was that they even bought a physical copy of a game and that gives you a good idea of where things are and have been for quite some time. Again, do not complain at BGS or other developers when the market demand is what they are following, as they must as a business making mass market products.

Good on companies nowadays that that don't have to release a finished product, because they can let others do it for them for free.

It feels as if the UIs of PC versions of Bethesda games are getting worse and worse. I miss the days when you could play games without things like UI mods and fan patches.

VGCharts only list boxes from game stores, not from webshops like amazon and not steam.

In short they miss the main sales channels for PC games giving an error rate far more than 100%

Steamspy.com give better data.

You can get an decent overview by comparing similar games around the same time who published sales figures.

Note that the data is not very updated. Skyrim also had an long tail of people jumping from console to pc.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/

Here is how they does it, its an automated poll but with more than 100.000 users.

Ah thanks Zaria!

...lemme guess, you're getting a paycheck from bethesda?

because it may run for YOU "perfectly" fine doesn't mean others can't have any problems with the game!

19 pages in support-forum speaks for themself^^

edit: and seeing 1920x1080 as max resoltion is kinda outdatet in 2015^^ ...they're already selling 8(!)k TVs

I just wanted to chime in...

Unlocked keys wouldn't necessarily solve everything...why are there THREE different options for a "back" button depending on the menu? To exit menus I have had to use Escape, Tab, and Enter(!?) I lol'd at "Enter(Exit)" but seriously it's a massive headache and hassle. Please fix.

Why can't I wheel scroll through weapons like in F3? Oh, convoluted console "favorites" menu." Ok, why can't I wheel scroll through favorites? The same terrible mouse-click system that selects "incredibly tiny antenna 1% hit chance" over and over in combat instead of "giant torso taking up entire screen 99%" chance is the same option to select your "favorites." Getting really sick of being forced to select the wrong thing because I want to use the mouse instead of trying to pick out number keys in the dark.

Third...I should never be forced to CONSTANTLY use three hands. Sorry guys, I never mutated from the fallout. There are way...and I mean WAY too many times you have to take your hands off your mouse or ASDF to hunt for Arrow keys. In a "fast-paced" situation this is a game killer.

Screw all the other whines about graphics and story and whatnot. Fix the actual PROBLEMS first, then worry about the whiners please.

Phang, regarding picking out number keys in the dark ... that's very old school before scrolls wheels on mice. You bound a weapon to a number key.

Yeah, I know, just frustrated that I spend so much time picking my way through menus when I want to be doing stuff.

That brings another thing to mind. I want grenades back in VATS. Thank god L-Alt can be rebound. Still, VATS grenades were more accurate.

Address/Fix the other items first though Bethesda, please. Seems like it would be pretty simple to incorporate a single "back" button, or an option to sub ASDF for arrow keys, or reimport the F3 wheel scroll stuff...which would solve a WHOLE bunch of angst. The mouse not being able to select the correct thing...well...that's probably gonna take more but hey, at least you fixed the easy stuff quick...right?

The only issue I have with this game todate is the effing bloody hardcoded keybindings.

Since I started SW-TOR some years back, I use EDSF as movement keys so I can access a few more fun keys.

And when you have 2-3 different keys for looting/interacting it gets messy.

Please please let me choose my own bidnings!

But I know another game, not quite sure which that also had a lot of "hardcoded" keys.

They where hidden away deep in the game settings, but eventually was patched away rather quickly.

Could it have been witcher 3 or was it perhaps dragon age inqusition?

I hope bethesda will allow me to define my own keys, I paid for a pc game after all.

How hard can it be to drop a few extra bits of code and allow me to choose my own settings?

*looks at all the complaints about the keyboard/mouse controls, looks over at my logitech usb controller*

I hate to tell you this, but the FDA is not on your side. They protect the companies from the public (just like HR, who protect the company from its employees). I know their mandate is suppose to be the other way around, but it hasn't been true in years (many years).

Only when there is a huge public outcry will the FDA act (usually after several deaths).

It was DAI. Only after an out cry did Bioware relent and allow you to remap keys. DAI actually turned into a decent game. I still hate the 8 slot limit, but other then that, most of the PC UI issues have been addressed. Of course, it took a year.

You guys get nudity mods, console does not, PC still better

Remember, all those sales figures for pc are for retail sales. They never include digital versions for obvious reasons. When those are included, you see a pretty even split between pc, xbox and ps4. It is not fair to to compare pc against both consoles lumped together. To be fair it should b e xbox vs. ps4 vs. pc. When looked at that way, pc is holding its own.