Bethesda, why are you taking the TES out of TES? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:56 pm

After reading countless threads, viewing every scrap of information that I can find online about the next ES game, Skyrim, I am seriously worried, and concerned.
It appears that Bethesda is removing any scrap of TES from this serious, making it another Fable-esque hack 'n' slash adventure game, NOT an RPG. At least not an RPG as we know it, ala Morrowind.

I think most veteran ES fans/players would agree with me that the dumbing down of the series to make more money is simply lame.

"Oh, Bethesda can't be bothered to make other options than immersion breaking Fast Travel as the only viable means of traveling. They just don't have the time for that."
Um, then make the time? You are the developer of the series, your own gaming company. If you wanted to "take the time" to do this, you could.

Things like:
-The removal of any realistic transportation system
-The removal of Attributes
-The removal SPELL MAKING? REALLY?
-Some sources say that we can't even talk to all NPC's. (although this could be mistranslation)

These things really worry me. What's the next ES game going to be like? No storyline? No Mainquest? What else are you going to strip from the series during this "streamlining dumbing down" process in order to make more money?
Now, please do not take offense to this post, or take it as a hostile post. I'm quite calm. I'm just afraid that the only true, good RPG left out there is dying because the company wants to make it accessible to toddlers.
Please, post your thoughts.

REMOVAL OF SPELL MAKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? I was so excited for this game but i keep hearing info that just strait pisses me off. About not having time, i think beth needs to worry less about making release dates and more about making quality games.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:12 pm

Not one person in this thread said "every aspect" or even implied it. Way to generalize.

I disagree wholeheartedly, because I am 100% sure people think that way, and I have seen people make that exact statement on these very boards and in real life from friends.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:09 am

Bethesda wants to make more $$$$$$$$.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:27 pm

I completely agree with that statement. I loved reading text in Morrowind over listening to the same voice actor for 9 races in Oblivion. The dialogue in Morrowind was surely more entertaining.

But, I digress, this thread isn't meant to bash either Morrowind or Oblivion. We're talking about Skyrim, and how it's being mainstreamed to the point of it not being TES.

Yes, since you have played Skyrim just like every other doom-sayer on this forum. You know Skyrim is going to be awful and not Elder Scrolls. Well, have fun being pessimistic for the next ten months.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:19 pm

last I checked, Bethesda decides what is the elder scrolls, not you

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:10 pm

We're talking about Skyrim, and how it's being mainstreamed to the point of it not being TES.

But it's not?

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:24 pm

last I checked, Bethesda decides what is the elder scrolls, not you

And last I checked, we, the consumers, the buyers, the players, are the people who pays Bethesdas bills. If we didn't buy their games, they wouldn't be making them anymore.
So I'm pretty sure that our opinion matters quite a lot to them.

But it's not?

People keep saying "But, you haven't played Skyrim yet. It's not dumbed down."
Have YOU played Skyrim yet? How are YOU so sure that it's not dumbed down? Stop setting a double standard.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:08 pm

People keep saying that Morrowind was a heavily flawed game and Oblivion improved up on every aspect in regards to gameplay.
What about the things Oblivion made worse? You say that Morrowind fans are hard headed, what about Oblivion fans? You people cannot admit that Oblivion did certain things wrong, and that Morrowind did it better.
Morrowind is not a perfect game. Oblivion is not a perfect game.
Good thing this topic is about Skyrim, and how it's becoming Fable 4.

It's more simply the fact that Morrowind in quantity had more things going wrong for it, where Oblivion was notably the presentation of the problems it had were far more apparent and easy to see, and not a direct issue of game mechanics but rather the level they took them to. It was just simply overdone.

I'm not saying Morrowind is imperfect or perfect, same with Oblivion, same with Daggerfall. They've all got things going for them that make them great, and things that make them weak. If you just try to stick to a formula, your game WILL not grow. Skyrim is doing a lot of things for a lot of good reasons. The fact that you're turning a blind eye to this is childish and laughable at best.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:05 pm

REMOVAL OF SPELL MAKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? I was so excited for this game but i keep hearing info that just strait pisses me off. About not having time, i think beth needs to worry less about making release dates and more about making quality games.

First off, we don't know if that was true or not. It might have gotten lost in translation when talking about combining spells via duel wielding to creat new spells, such as fire in one hand and ice in another does not make water. The effects don't combine to make something new.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:21 pm

Might aswell start calling them Bethe$da

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:14 pm

But, I digress, this thread isn't meant to bash either Morrowind or Oblivion. We're talking about Skyrim, and how it's being mainstreamed to the point of it not being TES.

No disgression here : you and I don't like Oblivion dialogue repetitiveness, the close-ups ; and that much is being dealt with (still waiting to hear about writing). They don't just try to improve on combat - if they focused solely on that, I would call it "dumbed down". But we hear about quite a few completely useless yet so important areas which are worked upon : again, I think that the fact that they should worry about towns economies, other activities such as mining or cooking, making settlements truly unique (Dunmer town yay) all that is very encouraging as to the way they view the game.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:18 pm

Morrowind was not a perfect masterpiece without a single blemish. It was not God's holy grail sent down to give RPG standards. It was a great game no doubt, but it was NOT PERFECT.

Morrowind was a DUMBED DOWN VERSION of Daggerfall by the way.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:40 pm

People keep saying "But, you haven't played Skyrim yet. It's not dumbed down."
Have YOU played Skyrim yet? How are YOU so sure that it's not dumbed down? Stop setting a double standard.

but in return your saying its being dumbed down were not saying its going to be perfect were just saying until you play the game or know more you can't say its been dumbed down

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:56 am

nvm

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:41 pm

:confused: :facepalm: these arguments are getting tiresome.......

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:30 am

but in return your saying its being dumbed down were not saying its going to be perfect were just saying until you play the game or know more you can't say its been dumbed down

Why would I simply "wait" and take the chance of our voices not being heard, rather than make known our concerns? You have no say in what I can say and what I can't. I'll speak my mind, and so will others. If someone doesn't like something about the game while it's in production, we'll talk about it. That's our right, and it's encouraged.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:38 pm

People keep saying "But, you haven't played Skyrim yet. It's not dumbed down."
Have YOU played Skyrim yet? How are YOU so sure that it's not dumbed down? Stop setting a double standard.

So, in essence, you just said that nobody has the right to speculate about the quality until the game is out and they play it. In that case, I agree with you, and this thread shouldn't even exist. :teehee:

You sort of just defeated your own thread purpose here.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:12 am

So, in essence, you just said that nobody has the right to speculate about the quality until the game is out and they play it. In that case, I agree with you, and this thread shouldn't even exist. :teehee:

You sort of just defeated your own thread purpose here.

Um, what? I really don't think you have a grasp of this situation.
Where did I say you couldn't voice you opinion? I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion. Your opinion is that Skyrim is not mainstreamed/dumbed down. I never said you couldn't say that.
But 90% of you are saying that I can't say that it is. That = a double standard.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:53 pm

Why would I simply "wait" and take the chance of our voices not being heard, rather than make known our concerns? You have no say in what I can say and what I can't. I'll speak my mind, and so will others. If someone doesn't like something about the game while it's in production, we'll talk about it. That's our right, and it's encouraged.

but their is no logic in your argument

also I know this is weird but I'm enjoying the arguing so make a second thread after this

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Why would I simply "wait" and take the chance of our voices not being heard, rather than make known our concerns? You have no say in what I can say and what I can't. I'll speak my mind, and so will others. If someone doesn't like something about the game while it's in production, we'll talk about it. That's our right, and it's encouraged.

The problem is by ignoring additions to the game and involving yourself with fallacies of loaded arguments and slippery slopes with no sound argument or logic behind it is simply NOT speaking your mind, but rather speaking out your ass.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:01 pm

And last I checked, we, the consumers, the buyers, the players, are the people who pays Bethesdas bills. If we didn't buy their games, they wouldn't be making them anymore.
So I'm pretty sure that our opinion matters quite a lot to them.

People keep saying "But, you haven't played Skyrim yet. It's not dumbed down."
Have YOU played Skyrim yet? How are YOU so sure that it's not dumbed down? Stop setting a double standard.

but in return your saying its being dumbed down were not saying its going to be perfect were just saying until you play the game or know more you can't say its been dumbed down

Exactly. We are saying nobody will know until they play it if it's good or bad

Also, I'm sorry but BGS games sell millions. A few thousand forum goers who whine about every change are not going to hurt their wallet. I mean, if you want to go with how you think the game will be. Fable 4, I believe you said? Guess what Fable II and III out sold Fable 1 by a long shot. Fable is a huge franchise now. Do I like it? No. But I can't deny me not buying Fable III is not hurting LionHead at all.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:18 pm

Morrowind was a DUMBED DOWN VERSION of Daggerfall by the way.

Oblivion being a dumbed down Morrowind, if Skyrim follow the trend, we're pretty much headed toward a "SKAHRM collector's edition - with actual Nord drool !".

... I'd probably still buy it. :mellow:

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:15 pm

And last I checked, we, the consumers, the buyers, the players, are the people who pays Bethesdas bills. If we didn't buy their games, they wouldn't be making them anymore.
So I'm pretty sure that our opinion matters quite a lot to them.

I don't think you quite understand
we, as in the people on these forums, are generally the minority.
millions will buy this game, and for millions it will be the first TES game they play, they want something accessible.
morrowind, wasn't accessibly due to the combat, and I hated that game for the longest time because of it.

they're making the series, they decide how the series progress, and people will buy it
I bet you still will buy it, and if not? you're just one person.
if everyone in this forum doesn't buy it? like I said, we're the minority.

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:45 am

You are entitled to your own opinion, we all are. But have a little more faith in Bethesda. Die-hard morrowind fans might say that oblivion was a watering down of the TES formula but that game practically made bethesda a household name. making the decision on what to keep and what to let go is a hard one and i can almost guarantee you none of it was easy (Except maybe killing mysticism that one seems pretty easy) . As the series goes on wee Might see a lot of changes to this wonderful series and i think they will be changes for the better..........and is that so bad? A wise man once said: Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

And to me the future of Bethesda looks bright :disguise:

» Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:22 am

Oblivion being a dumbed down Morrowind, if Skyrim follow the trend, we're pretty much headed toward a "SKAHRM collector's edition - with actual Nord drool !".

... I'd probably still buy it. :mellow:

Same here.