You ate talking about clue!

Coyote Den? lol.

I also want climable leadders?

That woould definately help cave/mine exploration.

well caves people have lived in.

I just don't want all caves to be the same, like they were in Oblivion. After you had a little bit of money and didn't need the cheap loot badly, there was absolutely nothing left to motivate you to go into another cave and kill another bunch of goblins/necromancers/bandits for some worthless loot.

While I agree that it would be cool, there are several reasons why (at least in oblivion's engine) it wouldn't work. The main one is that with the engine there is no feasible way to make it work unless all the cave were specifically on the cliffs/ridges of hills and mountains, which there were not many of. Even then they would have to have a hole in the ground which (to my knowledge from using the Construction Set) could not be done, as the ground is from a technical standpoint, a single mesh. Along with that there was the fact that enemies could easily detect through thin walls would make sneaking in cities very challenging. Finally, think about all the models from house interiors to random loot to NPCs. Now take all of that from EVERY building in Bruma and try and load it all at once. It won't work too well.

This.
I'd prefer a hole as a loading door like in Morrowind than some door.

This is all (basically as you said) based on Oblivion's engine. And you can't compare a 5 year old engine with something like this today.

Firstly, I expect caves to not be in the middle of a forest as in Oblivion. They should be in more logical places. Near mountains or hills. Or if they are in a forest, at least made believable by not having them as a simply big, lonely rock with a door in it.
Secondly, I have no idea how to do a hole in a ground, lol. But my guess is that after 5 years, technology has developed so far that they know how to dig a hole
Thirdly, AI can know when there is something in the way between you and an NPC. This was done in Oblivion. Archers didn't shoot if you were behind a building. Same theory can be implemented here.
Fourhtly, I don't know about this. Gamebryo handled lots of items horribly. I've played other games with "real open" cities that have "real open" houses. No problems there. Shouldn't be any reason why Bethesda can't do this either then.

Wrong, they are pronounced the same.

queue–noun [kyoo]
2.a file or line, esp. of people waiting their turn.

cue–noun [kyoo}
3.a hint; intimation; guiding suggestion.

A new engine isn't going to be a miracle. It too will have limitations. That is no excuse to ask for such a thing. Overload: there will be way too many things to render. If they do make everything into one world, there will certainly be less detail.

1. So we can knock on something when we announce our visit I agree, makes all too easy to spot, especially with the automatic marker on the map. There are some variations, but they are very few.
2. Huh? I'm finding "caves" all over the place and most are pretty well placed, with an entrance system that fits the outside well. So, not sure what you mean. Also, see the movie Descent, and notice where the "exit" is
3. I never noticed they are. Any special "kind" of caves you're referring to here?
4. Because of the natural magic content of the planet of course Devs probably didn't want an all dark environment where you can get stuck if you have no light.

Many of the games that have open cities and open houses have very few items with any kind of physics in them. it needs to be a pretty good engine to be able to handle all the items with physics being pulled by gravity and movable by outside sources. Nowadays it should be a lot easier but it all depends on the engine's capabilities. The fact that it has to be playable on the console definitely detracts that fact too. I had a full open cities mod on my pc and a console would not be able to compete.

I feel the same thing when in a cave, i just wana do what i was doing fast and leave

Why are there doors on caves?

Why to keep the bandits inside of course! :tongue:

I have to admit, that I haven't played Oblivion a lot.
However I didn't like the caves in Oblivion very much.
Of course the entrances shouldn't been blocked by doors. This makes only sence, when people are living there.
How did the creatures use the doors?

I am not sure whether following already was in Oblivion:
I would like to see some non quest related caves which are hard to find. Let's say a tiny hole behind a bush where you have to crouch to get in.
Places that award players for exploring every tiny part of the world.


And regarding doors: I'd like to have real doors that open. It just feels odd when people walk through it, and the loading screen is also a bit killing the athmosphere.
This also means: real windows.
These were some of the small details that I didn't like in F3 and Oblivion. As these are engine related I hope the new engine will do better at these points!

I don't think the Devs will have time to render every single cave to be unique, but I would like at least a few different tilesets that can be cycled through. However, some caves were really done right. To name a few in Oblivion, there was Kingscrest Cavern, which had a huge submerged forest in one of its levels, or Lost Boy Caverns, which had that cool little backstory/non-journal quest, or Black Rock Caverns, which had an entire [censored] Pirate Ship in it. Hell, even Vahtacen was pretty cool. The rest were pretty boring and nondescript, though.

I know that not every cavern can be painstakingly and lovingly handcrafted for us, but I'd like to go spelunking and not think "aw, jeez, this is just going to be the same [censored] again."

Aside from that, I agree with you all in saying that doors on caves are pretty stupid and should be rendered as dark voids instead. I'd like some caves to have gaping maws, and others to be small crevices you'd have to squeeze into.

Not just that, but honestly, I also want some caves to be HUGE, spanning multiple levels and going deep into Nirn's crust—caves you pretty much NEED a torch or a light spell to get through. I'd like caves with these crazy, alien environments in them, and powerful enemies lurking at their deepest points. Now that would be awesome. I would also kind of like something like Rockmilk Cave, except more developed. I'd like to see a small settlement or something, just sitting there in the cave. Maybe some kind of outlaws' hideout or something.

Honestly though, I feel like this should apply to ALL dungeons, including forts and Ayleid ruins. I felt like I went into too many of those ruins knowing exactly what to expect.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit.

I noticed in one of the screens in GI that it looks like a Imperial dropped down a hole into the cave.

Hmm the engine seems like it will be much more powerful, at least strong enough to have small towns out in the open world so maybe caves will be a tad more interesting. All depends on the engine which sounds pretty damn good right now.

i think caves should be literally pitch black if they are uninhabited by npcs.
that way torches, light, and night eye (all useless unless you had the realistic cave lighting mod) would have... a reason to exist :thumbsup:

I like that!

Venetica had a nice lamp which you had to refill with oil once in a while.
While exploring caves your character held the lamp in front of him, when he pulled out his weapon the lamp was swinging at his belt, which looked pretty cool during a fight.