Better cities or Open cities reborn? : IV

» Tue May 03, 2011 11:24 am

I have just bought a spanking new graphics card and I would like to try either BC or OCR. I tried them briefly before but my pc was not good enough to run them well. I am not really sure which is better or what the pros and cons of each are. Which of them requires more computer horsepower? I don't know whch mod makes the most radical changes to the cities. I think there is also Open Better cities which may be worth trying. Any advice?

» Tue May 03, 2011 11:31 am

I believe Open Better Cities was discontinued as there are now Open versions for each of the Better Cities included with the BC mod. I prefer OCR, since the changes are logical and the layouts/wall meshes are great! Honestly, though, you'd be better off downloading both as BAIN packages and playing through them briefly to see which one better suits your tastes.

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:30 pm

OCR is fabulous and doesn't really add much load, if any at all. Arthmoor has just released an OBSE version so that you don't get any anomalies if you reload your game without exiting completely - which I do continuously!

I've never used Better Cities. I've looked at it and always felt that it added too much for my taste. As Mistahtokyo suggested, if you use BAIN, it would be pretty easy to install both and give each a test run. Don't run both at once though!

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:04 am

OCR is fabulous and doesn't really add much load, if any at all.

That's not really accurate. Well, I guess the fabulous part might be, but of course open cities hit performance. Might not be an issue that matters with recent rigs but I for one can't run OCC. Haven't tried OCR but I guess it hits performance somewhat like OCC. That's why they closed the cities to begin with. The same for the UL series - of course adding detailing will hit performance. That's why they made the landscape so bare to begin with (well, that and development time I'd guess). I'd love to run OCR but I'll have to wait until my next rig.

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:37 am

That's not really accurate. Well, I guess the fabulous part might be, but of course open cities hit performance.

Do we really want to have this debate AGAIN? There is no factual basis behind such claims and everyone who has bothered to actually check it has come to the same conclusion.

They closed the cities because they were afraid the XBox couldn't handle it, but that fallacy was destroyed ages ago with newer games that had higher levels of detail and had no concept of city cell separation. Skyrim's new engine has also totally dispelled the notion that these sorts of things were or are necessary today.

Oblvion's biggest problem continues to be the NPC AI and virtually all of the game's performance issues are tied in some way to subjecting the game to too many AIs. OCC adds exactly zero new AIs to the game. OCR adds a small handful (< 10) in a few places. Neither form of Open Cities adds any significant increase in the amount of clutter, and the two cities that do (Chorrol and Leyawiin) spread it out quite a bit.

I find it rather frustrating to say the least that people who have knowledge of the game continue to insist on making claims that are so easily disproven with minimal effort.

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:12 am

Do we really want to have this debate AGAIN? There is no factual basis behind such claims and everyone who has bothered to actually check it has come to the same conclusion.

They closed the cities because they were afraid the XBox couldn't handle it, but that fallacy was destroyed ages ago with newer games that had higher levels of detail and had no concept of city cell separation. Skyrim's new engine has also totally dispelled the notion that these sorts of things were or are necessary today.

Oblvion's biggest problem continues to be the NPC AI and virtually all of the game's performance issues are tied in some way to subjecting the game to too many AIs. OCC adds exactly zero new AIs to the game. OCR adds a small handful (< 10) in a few places. Neither form of Open Cities adds any significant increase in the amount of clutter, and the two cities that do (Chorrol and Leyawiin) spread it out quite a bit.

I find it rather frustrating to say the least that people who have knowledge of the game continue to insist on making claims that are so easily disproven with minimal effort.

Well, I can't run Open Cities as it drops performance below what's acceptable. Constant stuttering in Leyawiin for example. My char can take one step at a time - then I have to wait ten seconds before the next step. And it's not because I run FCOM as it doesn't affect the city. In fact, I don't run any mods that affect performance there negatively. No ones adding NPCs or whatever. The difference is between running OCR and not running it. Granted, cities like Anvil and Leywaiin are the places that are close to the edge performance wise to begin with for me - but adding OCR makes it unbearable.

I find it rather frustrating when people say that open cities and the UL's don't affect performance. And I'll stop bringing it up when people stop saying that open cities won't affect performance.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:54 am

Arthmoor, OCR does hit performance. Its not a big hit though, and in my experience, you only tend to see it on the edges of the cities.

The reason or this is simple; the game has load both the AI's both outside and inside at the same time. The gate at Bruma for instance sees me drop to about 17fps because the game has to render the guards on both sides of the gate at the same time (vs vanilla where it is only one side at a time). As soon as I head into the city the fps bounces back up to 25-30.

Skingrad tends to have the same problem (though the UL mod in the area makes the problem quite a bit worse.

But if we do a 'how much does OCR hit your computer compared to BC anolysis', OCR is a much less engine intensive mod.

EDIT; also, to Arkgnt's point about Leyawiin, I find it one of the smoothest area's in the whole of OCR. In fact, Leyawiin and Anvil are the easiest cities on my rig as a whole (as in 25-30fps no matter what part of the city I am in). It may be more to do with the rest of our load orders, though.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:47 am

Would be useful if you both posted computer specs. Primarily CPUs....
I've always wondered if AMD handles Oblivion better... And I know Arthmoor is rollin' AMD.

» Tue May 03, 2011 9:53 am

Computer specs...um, my signature? (though I suppose it doesn't cover the motherboard and the like)

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:37 am

Would be useful if you both posted computer specs. Primarily CPUs....
I've always wondered if AMD handles Oblivion better... And I know Arthmoor is rollin' AMD.

AMD Athlon 64 3500+. Vrooom!

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:43 am

I've used both. I can confirm that neither imposes significantly more of a load than the other, or over the vanilla cities really. The worst-performing BC locations seem to be the Imperial City Waterfront and The Market District. For OCR it was Anvil that seemed to make things chug a bit, but even then not by a huge amount.

I think the concept of which one is better is not very meaningful anyway - they are trying to do different things so it largely depends on your own tastes and preferences. I personally love BC Chorrol and BC Bravil, while I also think that OCR Leyawiin and OCR Bruma are outstanding. It used to be possible to mix the mods together and have different cities from different mods, but both BC and OCR have now decided to drop the modularity feature that made this possible - mainly because the maintenance headaches involved in continued support of the feature were just too high (a decision I completely respect).

So, really, try both, see which one you like more. They "cost" about the same in terms of additional load imposed.

» Mon May 02, 2011 10:34 pm

Computer specs...um, my signature? (though I suppose it doesn't cover the motherboard and the like)

Sorry, was really gearing that question for Arkngt. Should of stated that in the post.
Well, there goes my theory... I've always had Intel, so I never knew if the AMD grass was greener...
Trying to find the reasoning as to why some people insist there is no performance hit with open city mods while others say there is.

EDIT: Are we CERTAIN that Oblivion does not utilize multi-core processing? What about about the other OSR? Does that add multi-core support?
Arthmoor and prettyfly both have more powerful multi-core processors. Where as Arkngt has a single core processor. I just have a hard time believing Oblivion is stuck only using one core.

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:53 pm

I've used both. I can confirm that neither imposes significantly more of a load than the other, or over the vanilla cities really. The worst-performing BC locations seem to be the Imperial City Waterfront and The Market District. For OCR it was Anvil that seemed to make things chug a bit, but even then not by a huge amount.

Well, my point is that it do believe it isn't significant if you have a rig that can handle it - but for older rigs it might very well be, as in my case. Why wouldn't I run OCR if I could? I think they make an amazing difference when it comes to immersion.

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:06 pm

I find it rather frustrating when people say that open cities and the UL's don't affect performance. And I'll stop bringing it up when people stop saying that open cities won't affect performance.

And you can bet that when I notice people bagging on it when the performance issues simply don't exist I'll be right there to chime in to counter it. There's no truth to it, and OCC/OCR has never been an issue on anyone's rig I've run it on. I don't just base my claims on the rig *I* play with *TODAY* either. I've been out to dispel this pure disinformation campaign pretty much since Open Cities first existed, even before I took over the project. I originally ran Oblivion on a pretty crappy computer and never once have I seen any manifestation of this supposed huge impact on things, and that's including the use of such known drains as QTP3 and AI heavy mods.

Prettyfly's mentioning of Leyawiin being nice and smooth seems to speak to the fact that he's actually checked it. I certainly never had issue with it even before it was optimized and had all the duplicated items cleaned up.

As far as AI not being loaded, when you're near enough to load doors to have them visible, the AI behind them is already active at mid-level processing. So any actual load imposed by them is already in place.

I stand by my assertion that any performance degradation is coming from other mods which are adding too much AI to the system for it to handle.

Ans since someone asked for my specs - keep in mind these are what I have now:

AMD 3.2Ghz CPU.
Radeon 4870 w/2GB.
8GN Ram, Windows 7 64 bit.

The game's performance in all areas got a huge shot in the arm with the upgrade to Win7 btw. I was surprised by that, but it affected everything universally.

And for comparison, current load order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 TR_OoT_Main.esm
02 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.73]
03 Harvest[Containers].esm
04 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.3]
05 Open Cities Resources.esm [Version 4.0]
06 Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]
07 Artifacts.esm [Version 1.1]
08 VASE - core.esm
09 TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]
0A CM Partners.esm
0B Cybiades.esm [Version 2.0]
0C Children Of Rourken.esm
0D Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
0E Windfall.esm
0F GTAesgaard_2.esm
10 Oblivifall Master File.esm [Version 1.0]
11 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.3.5]
12 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.2]
13 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
14 Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.2.2]
++ Harvest[Containers] - Vanilla.esp
++ Harvest[Containers] - SI.esp
15 All Natural.esp [Version 1.3]
16 All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.3]
17 All Natural - Real Lights.esp [Version 1.3]
18 Immersive Interiors.esp [Version 0.7]
19 Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp [Version 0.7]
++ TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp [Version 1.39c]
1A ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
1B Happyhannah's Wines.esp [Version 1.1]
1C BHC_Expanded.esp [Version 1.2]
1D Cliff_BetterLetters.esp [Version 1.2]
++ ArmamentariumLL.esp [Version 1.35]
++ ArmamentariumLLMagic.esp [Version 1.35]
1E ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp [Version 1.35]
++ ArmamentariumLLArmaVendor.esp [Version 1.35]
++ Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp [Version 1.0]
1F AFK_Tweaks.esp [Version 1.5]
20 TIE.esp [Version 1.45]
21 IlluminateStaves.esp
22 Immersive Travelers.esp
23 Oblivifall - Losing My Religion.esp [Version 1.3]
++ VASE - Vanilla Cyrodiil.esp
++ VASE - Vanilla SI.esp
24 RAEVWD Imperial City.esp [Version 1.9.1]
25 Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp [Version 2.0.7]
26 AFK_PrayerIdles.esp [Version 1.0]
27 DLCHorseArmor.esp
28 DLCOrrery.esp
29 DLCFrostcrag.esp
2A DLCThievesDen.esp
2B DLCVileLair.esp
2C DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
2D DLCSpellTomes.esp
2E Knights.esp
2F DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
30 SM Plugin Refurbish(Merged).esp [Version 1.30]
31 OCC-KOTN-Patch.esp [Version 3.0]
32 OCOD+FrostcragSpire Patch.esp
33 AFK_Frostcrag.esp [Version 1.0.COBL]
34 Whispered Warning.esp
35 Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
36 Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
37 OCC-KR-Patch.esp [Version 2.0.1]
38 Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp
39 RTT.esp [Version 3.01]
3A RTT-Weye Relocation Patch.esp [Version 2.0.1]
3B OCC-RTTv3 Patch.esp [Version 2.0]
3C Malevolent.esp [Version 1.02]
3D OCC-Malevolent-Patch.esp [Version 3.0]
3E GTAesgaard.esp
3F GTAesgaard_2.esp
40 Cybiades.esp [Version 2.1]
41 CybiadesDungeon.esp [Version 2.1]
42 Nascosto Isles 3.esp
43 All Natural - Nascosto Isles Weather Patch.esp [Version 2.0]
44 COR-Episode1 Secret of Enourk.esp
45 Ivellon.esp [Version 1.8]
46 WeynonRetreat.esp [Version 1.4]
47 The Lost Spires.esp [Version 1.4]
48 OCC-Lost Spires-Patch.esp [Version 2.1]
49 Blood&Mud.esp
4A OldCrowInn.esp [Version 1.5.1]
4B HeartOftheDead.esp [Version 6.5]
4C Windfall.esp
4D LetThePeopleDrink.esp [Version 2.5]
4E The Ayleid Steps.esp [Version 3.4]
4F HackdirtCaverns.esp
50 Mimics!.esp
51 BrotherhoodRenewed.esp [Version 1.0.12]
52 EaglesRest.esp [Version 1.0]
53 Better Benirus Manor.esp [Version 4.71]
54 Better Benirus Manor - Helping Hands.esp
55 Better Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary.esp
56 BDBS - Chapel Memorial.esp
57 Gaelendryl.esp
58 Dungeons Merger.esp
59 Unique Dungeons - Lost Glory.esp
5A Unique Dungeons - Lichs Lair.esp
5B JQ-Return_of_Dagoth_Ur.esp
5C TheOubliette.esp
5D DarknessHollows.esp
5E PTArtifacts.esp
5F Valley_View_Estate.esp
60 InnsOfCyrodill.esp
61 ShezriesTownsMaster.esp
62 LostSpires+PellsGate Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
63 TR_Stirk.esp
64 Stirk_Compatibility_Patch.esp
65 To Feed an Empire - Wickmere Farm.esp [Version 1.0]
66 VHBloodlines 1.2.esp [Version 1.5.3]
67 AFK_Weye.esp [Version 2.21.Non-COBL]
68 Wellspring Vale.esp
69 ElsweyrAnequina.esp
6A road+bridges.esp [Version 4.6]
6B Feldscar.esp [Version 1.0.9]
6C Vergayun.esp [Version 1.0.7]
6D Faregyl.esp [Version 2.0.1]
6E Faregyl+Anequina Patch.esp [Version 2.0]
6F Molapi.esp [Version 1.0.1]
70 JDNT_Brina Cross.esp
71 PTMudwater.esp
72 Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp
73 TalosBridgeGateHouse.esp
74 xulStendarrValley.esp [Version 1.2.2]
75 xulAncientRedwoods.esp [Version 1.6]
76 xulCloudtopMountains.esp [Version 1.0.3]
77 xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp [Version 1.6.4]
78 xulEntiusGorge.esp [Version 1.2]
79 xulImperialIsle.esp [Version 1.6.7]
7A xulAncientYews.esp [Version 1.4.3]
7B xulArriusCreek.esp [Version 1.1.4]
7C xulPatch_AY_AC.esp [Version 1.1]
7D xulRollingHills_EV.esp [Version 1.3.3]
7E xulFallenleafEverglade.esp [Version 1.3.1]
7F xulChorrolHinterland.esp [Version 1.2.2]
80 xulRiverEthe.esp [Version 1.0.2]
81 xulDarkForest.esp [Version 1.0.5]
82 xulLushWoodlands.esp [Version 1.3.1]
83 xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp [Version 1.2.2]
84 xulTheHeath.esp [Version 1.1.1]
85 xulPantherRiver.esp
86 xulBravilBarrowfields.esp [Version 1.3.3]
87 xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp [Version 1.1]
88 xulBlackwoodForest.esp [Version 1.1.0]
89 xulCheydinhalFalls.esp [Version 1.0.1]
8A xulAspenWood.esp [Version 1.0.2]
8B xulSkingradOutskirts.esp [Version 1.0.1]
8C xulSnowdale.esp [Version 1.0.2]
8D xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp
8E xulTheEasternPeaks.esp
8F West Roads.esp [Version 1.3]
90 WellspringVale+WestRoads Patch.esp
91 Castle_Seaview.esp
92 EaglesRest+LostCoast+CastleSeaview Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
93 LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp [Version 1.2]
94 LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp [Version 1.1]
95 WeynonRetreat-ChorrolHinterland-Patch.esp [Version 1.1]
96 HeartoftheDead-ArriusCreek patch.esp [Version 2.2]
97 ValleyViewEstate-RiverEthe patch.esp [Version 1.1.1]
98 Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
99 Mimics+Ravenview+Cloudtop Patch.esp [Version 2.0]
9A Gaelendryll-BrenaRiver patch.esp [Version 1.2.1]
9B KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp
9C Lakewood+AspenWood Patch.esp [Version 2.0]
9D Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
9E TalosGatehouse + ULImperialIsle.esp
9F Verwen Brewery.esp [Version wen.]
A0 ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp
A1 ImpeREALForts+BrinaCross Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
A2 ImpeREALForts+LostSpires Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
A3 A Imperial Outpost - Fort Novi Sad.esp
A4 ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp
A5 AFK_ICTempleCleanup.esp [Version 1.0.LtPD]
A6 bartholm.esp
A7 Frostcrag Village.esp [Version 1.0.1]
A8 Open Cities New Sheoth.esp [Version 2.0]
A9 Open Cities Bartholm.esp [Version 2.0]
AA Open Cities Outer Districts.esp [Version 4.0]
AB Open Cities Reborn.esp [Version 0.8.5]
AC OCR+ULCH Patch.esp [Version 1.0]
AD NRB4+UL-II+LtPD+OCOD Patch.esp [Version 3.0.3]
AE OCLR+ULBWForest Patch.esp [Version 1.0.2]
AF OCC+Cheydinhal Falls Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
B0 OC+ULSkingradOutskirts Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
B1 AFK_Blades_EQ.esp [Version 1.2]
B2 Alternative Beginnings.esp [Version 1.1.3]
B3 WindowLightingSystem.esp
B4 Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.8]
B5 Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp [Version 3.5]
B6 Dynamic Map.esp [Version 2.0]
++ Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp
++ Enhanced Vegetation [100%].esp
++ Symphony of Violence.esp
++ Louder Nirnroot Sound.esp
++ Visually Realistic Lava.esp
++ TrollfLoadingScreens.esp
** Rusty+Fine Items.esp
** Book Jackets OB+SI+DLC.esp
** Clutter Graphics.esp
++ QuestDialogueFix.esp
B7 PersonalMerge.esp
B8 Streamline.esp [Version 3.1]
B9 RefScope.esp [Version 2.1.2]
BA Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp [Version 0.42]
** NRB4 OCReborn Road Record.esp
BB Weather Debug Ring.esp
** All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp [Version 1.3]
++ Bashed Delayers - MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 3.1.24]
++ Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp [Version 1.00]
** TIE Weapon + Armor Filter.esp
BC Bashed Patch, 0.esp

All of which hovers pretty close to 30fps at all times, capped there only by OSR. Except when looking toward the IC right now because I've got the VWD plugin active. But RAEVWD is about the only thing that can bring this setup down. I don't' have a computer that's a great deal better than at least half of the others I see in peoples' sigs either. So I don't' want to hear some BS about what an awesome computer I have.

So yeah, excuse me if I sound pissed, but this is really getting old to have to keep after this disinformation.

Good lord, ninja'd by a whole bunch of people.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:55 am

Prettyfly's mentioning of Leyawiin being nice and smooth seems to speak to the fact that he's actually checked it.

Man, so you think I make this up do you? Why on earth would I lie about it? I base what I say solely on my own experience with my own rig between running OCR and not. And, yes, of course I've actually checked it. If you don't believe me there's not much I can do about it. You can call it disinformation all that you want - it's based on the performance I actually get in game. And I note that the others that have posted here also have noted performance hits - so I guess we all disseminate disinformation then... :shrug:

I stand by my assertion that any performance degradation is coming from other mods which are adding too much AI to the system for it to handle.

That's basically irrelevant as I compare the difference with and without OCR. So the factor is OCR.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:04 pm

The difference between them and you is that they're not calling it game crippling death the way you are. With the kind of CPU you're claiming to have, either you've got the thing configured totally wrong or you're making it up. I'm not saying which at this point.

The mods you use in conjunction with something are not irrelevant. Blaming OCR for the problem when the actual fault is other stuff you're using is insane. I could point the finger easily at the real culprit but you've already subtly indicated you have no desire to shine the light of truth at it so I won't bother.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:57 pm

Blaming OCR for the problem when the actual fault is other stuff you're using is insane.

Cute.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:58 am

The only times performance hits are noticable to me are when:

A: I am immediately outside the city (which this could have been avoided completely if gamesas had bothered with a simple optimization trick).

B: I am looking towards a DistantLOD heavy scene with a good deal of the city in front of me (and again could have been avoided of gamesas had bothered with Occlusion Culling).

I would add a C to that if I were using ULs, but that's not even Open Cities' fault. So, in fact there are two major degraders at play here. Firstly, the poorly optimized AI processing, and lastly the lack of Occlusion Culling. I really wish the OBGE team can find a way to address that second problem, but I'm highly doubtful they can without the game's source code. Beside the point, only one of those has anything to do with Open Cities alone, the rest deal with other mods being in use, and this skews the data.

Remember people, just because your rig can handle everything you can throw at Oblivion does not mean it can handle everything you can throw at Oblivion at the same time.

The only true performance hit OCR is even remotely responsible for is the increased stuttering as the game loads the cities into view on run-time rather than in the background behind a loading screen.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:31 pm

Ahhemm... Back to my core theory... Sooo, everyone knows Xbox360 is a 3 core AMD proc. Right? Sooo. Obviously Oblivion was meant to roll 3 cores. I am still skeptical about proc performance in the OSR OCC argument. I had that same proc as Arkngt. It was the first one I used when I bought Oblivion. I then upgraded to a AMD X2 and notice vast improvements in the game. And again upgraded to a Core2Duo and saw small gains in performance. But not as noticeable as when I jumped from a single to dual core the first time around. I firmly believe multi-core procs has something to do with this.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:18 pm

Man, so you think I make this up do you? Why on earth would I lie about it? I base what I say solely on my own experience with my own rig between running OCR and not. And, yes, of course I've actually checked it. If you don't believe me there's not much I can do about it. You can call it disinformation all that you want - it's based on the performance I actually get in game. And I note that the others that have posted here also have noted performance hits - so I guess we all disseminate disinformation then... :shrug:

That's basically irrelevant as I compare the difference with and without OCR. So the factor is OCR.

Personally I think it really can't be determined whether a mod affects FPS or stresses a computer based on adding it to an already modded game compared to before adding it. You need to test FPS impact of any mod using a mod-free game, as any mod can have zero impact on FPS when added to an unmodded game, but drop FPS by a significant amount when added to a heavily modded game, as the combination of mods used together can make the difference which each mod used separately doesn't show, because each mod separately, doesn't make a difference.

EDIT
@ far327: No, Oblivion will only use a single core, the game was never made to properly handle multi-core processors, so it will only ever use one core. Don't forget that PCs are not X Boxes, if the game does manage to use more than one core in an X Box, that doesn't automatically mean it will use more than one in a PC (it doesn't).
It isn't that you have multi-cores, it's that you're using newer, more efficient processors than older CPUs, so even a single core of a multi-core can run better than an old one core processor clocked at the same speed.

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:25 pm

Ahhemm... Back to my core theory... Sooo, everyone knows Xbox360 is a 3 core AMD proc. Right? Sooo. Obviously Oblivion was meant to roll 3 cores. I am still skeptical about proc performance in the OSR OCC argument. I had that same proc as Arkngt. It was the first one I used when I bought Oblivion. I then upgraded to a AMD X2 and notice vast improvements in the game. I firmly believe multi-core procs has something to do with this.

No... Oblivion does not make any adequate usage of multi-core processors at all. If your theory was even remotely true, then people with Core I7s would be seeing horrible framerates while people with old Pentium 4s would be screaming along (barring the architecture changes, of course) because the I7 has 4 cores and hyperthreading while the Pentium has only one core and no hyperthreading. This is universally and empirically not the case.

For the last time, Oblivion does not care about Multi-core processors.

» Tue May 03, 2011 8:54 am

Personally I think it really can't be determined whether a mod affects FPS or stresses a computer based on adding it to an already modded game compared to before adding it. You need to test FPS impact of any mod using a mod-free game, as any mod can have zero impact on FPS when added to an unmodded game, but drop FPS by a significant amount when added to a heavily modded game, as the combination of mods used together can make the difference which each mod used separately doesn't show, because each mod separately, doesn't make a difference.

EDIT
@ far327: No, Oblivion will only use a single core, the game was never made to properly handle multi-core processors, so it will only ever use one core. Don't forget that PCs are not X Boxes, if the game does manage to use more than one core in an X Box, that doesn't automatically mean it will use more than one in a PC (it doesn't).
It isn't that you have multi-cores, it's that you're using newer, more efficient processors than older CPUs, so even a single core of a multi-core can run better than an old one core processor clocked at the same speed.

I might not know everything about processors... Obviously there are brighter people than myself when it comes to computers. Although I do work with computers for a living, it doesn't make me an expert. But can someone explain to me why more than one core is utilized when Oblivion is loaded? If it only used one core, than why does it spread the load of the process across multiple cores?

@ Thomas Kaira - I'm failing to understand your statement about

If your theory was even remotely true, then people with Core I7s would be seeing horrible framerates while people with old Pentium 4s would be screaming along (barring the architecture changes, of course) because the I7 has 4 cores and hyperthreading while the Pentium has only one core and no hyperthreading. This is universally and empirically not the case.

Wouldn't the opposite be true? And for the record, Pentium 4 was when HT was introduced.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:10 am

The game spreads the load across the multiple cores because that is what the processors are designed to do. Keeping core usage low decreases power drain and keeps the processor cool.

Oblivion is simply unaware that it is not making full usage of the processor. To put it in very layman terms, what is 100% usage for a single core processor is only 50% usage for a dual core processor, but Oblivion does not understand that. Having both cores at half-usage is equivalent to having one core at full usage, and that's all Oblivion can discern.

Once again, this is a very watered down explanation and I may have glazed some facts, but it should give you the general picture.

Also, the processor models do not matter (since we are ignoring the architecture changes between the models), they were used only for descriptive embellishment to help with understanding the idea. Pentium 4s are most commonly single-core processors, whereas the Core IX and Core 2 models are most commonly multi-cores.

» Tue May 03, 2011 5:16 am

Cute.

Truth. Deal with it.

Ahhemm... Back to my core theory... Sooo, everyone knows Xbox360 is a 3 core AMD proc. Right?

Actually I wasn't aware that the Xbox is a 3-core processor. While that's interesting, it doesn't really matter for the PC. Oblivion is not mult-core optimized. It may well make use of a second core if it's available, but I've never seen documented evidence of this going beyond about 15-20% of the second core. It never touches cores 3 and 4 on systems that have them. At least not that anyone has provided proof of.

Any use of your 3rd and 4th cores while playing the game are likely to be things your OS is doing in the background, so in that respect, yes, a mult-core CPU will help if only to relieve the over all processing burden from a single core system having to do everything the PC wants to do.

» Tue May 03, 2011 8:56 am

I'll butt out if this noticing that Arthmoor is somewhat, uhm, unbalanced. Accusing people of lying and insanity is beyond the pale IMO.