I sat back and read a few threads on why people want the Enclave to return and many bring valid points, central leadership destroyed, major bases wiped out, cut off, out gunned, hunted....and it honestly made me think of something we've seen in several anime's, several stories: adapt or die.

Lets take the Brotherhood DC chapter for example, they came to DC with a set number after a romp in the Pitt, and it quickly became clear they could not keep the fight going after losing so many people, Lyon's caves and brings in outsiders to the fold.

The point is, if the Enclave were (and they probably will) to return there needs to be a fundamental shift in their logic. Eventually you will find someone with a decent rank and a brain in the pile of stupidity that has been their leadership who will take a cold hard look in the face of defeat. When you're back is to the wall you can either A.) hold onto the crap belief that got your there, or B.) Change the way you approach the problem. The Brotherhood took in wastelander recruits, and in some cases the Enclave did...the robot dude at Adams for example.

"They found me starving, and helped me if I helped them."

So imagine for a moment an Enclave that came back from the brink, with a leader who was ruthless, and smart and not overly ambitious, who had a solid command of hardened veterans who have tasted defeat and who molded and army from "the new america" behind them. They took the image of the Enclave, and changed what was behind it...the "pure america" shelved, and became a force people in the wasteland could get behind.

Where they fit into a DLC is something I don't really know, I was hoping we could get that idea off the ground and let it snowball. Like, let's remove the whole "well they are done to death, no more" idea and roll with a new one, a better one alot of us would love.

Make the Enclave backable...because frankly as a brotherhood sentinel I wouldn't mind turning on them post game.

Honestly, the Enclave needs to just die. They have been completely decimated twice now.

I'm fine with a few former Enclave members being alive like in NV, but the Enclave as a whole needs to stay buried.

Well since you gave such a good speach on the subject.. I guess it might be an exciting plot twist. I like more options myself its what adds replayability value. Sooner or later you will want to come back and side with the Enclave, no matter how much you disagree with some of their ideals. I would even join a raider faction if it was in the game.. Okay honestly I would love to join a raider faction!!

I don't want to see THE Enclave.

But I want to see successor organizations to the Enclave.

If that makes sense.

I want to see Neo-Enclave Street Gangs, Weird Far-right NCR parties founded by Enclave sympathizers, and people who have co-opted the Enclave's tech as well as ideology for themselves.

The Enclave got the perfect ending in New Vegas imo. I love having the NCR, BoS and Enclave working together to take out the Legion even if the Enclave was later hunted down like animals in the end. But even with that I felt like the Enclave found some redemption in NV.

1.) Rig 2.) Navarro 3.) Mariposa 4.) Raven Rock 5.) Purifier+Outposts 6.) Adams Air Force base. By my count they've been decimated six times at least.

It's been a while since I played Fallout 3, but BoS got romped in the Pitt? I seem to remember Ashur commenting on how they just swept through killing everything that was hostile, taking technology and leaving the place. I don't remember anything about getting their butts kicked or anything.

The Lyons Brotherhood was a chapter off of the Western Brotherhood sent East. Lyons had different ideals than the rest of the Brotherhood and because of that they faced a schism in D.C. where the Outcasts left Elder Lyons because Lyons was more interested in helping people than following the BoS Codex.

On topic though: Give the Enclave a rest. They're dead and should stay dead. In fact I hope they replace the Super Mutants with something new and even more deadly than Deathclaws in the next game.

How could the Institute have slipped under the Enclave's radar for so long! The Enclave could have partnered with the Institute and built an army of Synth soldiers in X-01 power armor for goodness sakes.

No, Lyons kicked ass in the Pitt.

He got screwed up when he ended up fighting a vastly superior force of Super Mutants which also had a secret base.

Oh and half-his-men deserted.

The Enclave couldn't contact the VAULTS.

IN CALIFORNIA.

Otherwise, they probably would have called off all the psychotic experiments and built an army.

There's really no indication that the Institute would have agreed to side with them in the first place. Or the Enclave with them for that matter.

The Enclave was on the Oil Rig for a hell of a long time after the war, and by the time they made it east, the Institute had long since formed their own society and culture. Completely separate from the pro-US policy the Enclave took.

Can you imagine what ROBERT HOUSE would think, though?

House went to MIT. IF anything he would agree with what they are doing but I doubt he could have gotten help from them.

CIT and MIT are the same thing.

Presumably, it was renamed.

I imagine he'd hate it. He'd probably think them a bunch of prissy unfun know-it-alls.

One of the reasons I like House is that he loves the old spirit of the pre-war world. He revives Vegas specially to resurrect it.

The Institute is just a sterile (albeit beautiful in many ways) environment devoted to science. House craves that old world touch. Of any character, he has one of the most serious cases of old world blues. The Institute wants to forget about the old world and look towards the future (in a way that's actually a bit terrifying). House doesn't.

He might be impressed with their technology....for a few moments before he rolls in the Securitrons while blasting Frank Sinatra's "My Way".

Keep in mind that the CIT that House went to and the Institute are two completely different things. They've changed SO much.

Although I'm still disappointed we didn't find a reference to him in the CIT ruins.

I imagine he'd try to become Director and handle board-room meetings from a Securitron.

So I can blow them up again and take their stuff?