better to have off the shelf engine? : V

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:35 am

in my opinion, bethesda would have more time to do what they do best (which in my opinion is level design, lore and character dev.) if they picked an off the shelf engine.
The cryengine 3 looks amazing, and would be perffect for the setting that TES V will be in. Large scale environments could be generated easily (such as the pine forests of skyrim), and be generated in beauty.
also, the Cryengine 3 works well on consoles should bethesda go down that road again (hopefully they wont, but i guess its all about money)

this is just my opinion, but i would really like to know what other fans of TES think.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:49 am

in my opinion, bethesda would have more time to do what they do best (which in my opinion is level design, lore and character dev.) if they picked an off the shelf engine.
The cryengine 3 looks amazing, and would be perffect for the setting that TES V will be in. Large scale environments could be generated easily (such as the pine forests of skyrim), and be generated in beauty.
also, the Cryengine 3 works well on consoles should bethesda go down that road again (hopefully they wont, but i guess its all about money)

this is just my opinion, but i would really like to know what other fans of TES think.

But CryEngine 3 isn't suitable for making RPGs. Bethesda's engines are designed for making deep, dynamic and complex RPGs. Which a lot of engines can't. An engine like CryEngine works better for FPSs.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:05 pm

But CryEngine 3 isn't suitable for making RPGs.

I disagree. definitely could do an RPG on Cryengine. Well capable.

Butthe large open world, sandbox RPG that TES demands? No, not really. I suppose you could neuter loads of it and tailor it for this specific use. :shrug: But at a 1mil bucks license fee? I do not see any major benefits.

I think an in house engine is almost certainly the best solution possible.

for the record, Cryengine3 draw distance kills it. I am hoping you can scale it it up on the PC. cos on the xbox it's nearly lame.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:15 pm

Towards the end of the podcast with John Carmack, he makes a couple of interesting points about gaming engines. One is that distributing an engine is a two edged sword. The income is nice, but the more companies that are using it, the less inclined you are to make improvements. If there are only a half dozen users, changes can be coordinated with them, but if there are a hundred, all at various points in the development cycle, it's not something he would want to undertake.

He also makes the brief point that all engines are not suitable for all game types, ie Tech 5 is best for FPS's too.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:53 am

there was a video on youtube comparing cryengine 2 with 3 and basically showing how they nerfed it to make it work on consoles. barrels would magically appear only a few feet in front of the player. dammit microsoft and sony get on the ball and release new consoles already.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:34 am

But CryEngine 3 isn't suitable for making RPGs. Bethesda's engines are designed for making deep, dynamic and complex RPGs. Which a lot of engines can't. An engine like CryEngine works better for FPSs.

Aion is an great rpg that was done one cryengine. It's fine for that kind of thing.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:30 am

Aion is an great rpg that was done one cryengine. It's fine for that kind of thing.

Okay I stand corrected, but it still is not an engine designed for RPGs but rather FPSs, and it isn't suitable for a game like TES with all it's open-ended-ness and complexity.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:57 pm

but here we have our problem - oblivion was largely generated by algorithm, and ALOT of it is very uninteresting. maby they need an engine which would encourage them to add me areas by hand.

also, i think you forget that TES is a FP-RPG, it wouldnt be like bioware trying to make dragonage 3 on it.

plus, the cryengine is a really flexible engine.

btw, cryengine is just an example. im just putting it out there that the use of a premade engine would save time that could be used on other things

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:26 pm

Okay I stand corrected, but it still is not an engine designed for RPGs but rather FPSs, and it isn't suitable for a game like TES with all it's open-ended-ness and complexity.

Yeah your right, cryengine can do rpg's pretty well, but that doesn't mean it is the best engine to do TES on. There are much better engines far more suited to TES style of game.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:52 am

but here we have our problem - oblivion was largely generated by algorithm, and ALOT of it is very uninteresting. maby they need an engine which would encourage them to add me areas by hand.

Fallout 3 used the same engine, and the areas were all crafted by hand, so was New Vegas.

btw, cryengine is just an example. im just putting it out there that the use of a premade engine would save time that could be used on other things

I don't think it would save time, using another engine (besides gamebryo and their new engine) they would have to tweak it to suit their needs and get used to the new engine that they aren't familiar too. This would take roughly the same amount of time to design a new engine with everything they need.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:10 am

Fallout 3 used the same engine, and the areas were all crafted by hand, so was New Vegas.

I don't think it would save time, using another engine (besides gamebryo and their new engine) they would have to tweak it to suit their needs and get used to the new engine that they aren't familiar too. This would take roughly the same amount of time to design a new engine with everything they need.

i dont think so, with a new engine they need to incorporate the physics, shaders and everything else. plus tweaking for all the bugs that would undoubtably occour.
with a new engine, only tweaks and AI would need to be added.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:12 am

i dont think so, with a new engine they need to incorporate the physics, shaders and everything else. plus tweaking for all the bugs that would undoubtably occour.
with a new engine, only tweaks and AI would need to be added.

But the tweaks would be really massive...

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:52 pm

Yay, something I can answer! I think Carmack said it best [You know, you can get these really big third part engines, with lots of people using them. But then you get bogged down, and you can't really make any changes because so many people depend on how it works right now. You feel paralyzed.]

Gamebryo was bad, and that was "off the shelf." The best studios out there (Blizzard and Valve) build their own engines. This should tell you more than enough about third party engine licensing. If you've got the people to do it, a game developer is always better off building their own rather than licensing.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:45 am

I like that studios use their own engines; it makes the final product more...signature some how.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:43 am

If Elder Scrolls ever decides to go full-scale, full-sized Tamriel, This engine will suffice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmeiXEm9hFY

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:01 am

If Elder Scrolls ever decides to go full-scale, full-sized Tamriel, This engine will suffice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmeiXEm9hFY

Oh my goodness, that is simply... EPIC!

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:12 am

i kinda like the avalanche engine 2.0 thats used in just cause 2... yeah, it might not be made for RPGs, but... from what i read about it, and seeing JC2's 400+ square miles of huge explorable world... it'd be nice to see an elder scrolls game that big while still being stable... you know, not crashing/freezing constantly, becoming unplayable upon the file reaching a certain size [like fallout 3/new vegas]

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:11 am

the interesting thing about gamebryo and bethesda. is that the scene graph and renderer, while based on gamebryo tech, was heavily modified. what they used is a middleware solution... not a complete game engine by any stretch, Its missing key components, such as a physics engine. What I am saying is, you don't get what bethesda was working with from gamebryo. it's a very far removed aspect from what most people imagine.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:30 am

i kinda like the avalanche engine 2.0 thats used in just cause 2... yeah, it might not be made for RPGs, but... from what i read about it, and seeing JC2's 400+ square miles of huge explorable world... it'd be nice to see an elder scrolls game that big while still being stable... you know, not crashing/freezing constantly, becoming unplayable upon the file reaching a certain size [like fallout 3/new vegas]

yeah just cause 2 was really pretty.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:44 pm

Excuse me if i've missed something, but we haven't seen what the engine can do?

I think that we should see what this new engine can do first before we start wondering if other game engines would be better suited for Skyrim.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:46 am

Since there is absolutely no info about Skyrim yet, there's nothing else to do but speculate about engines.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:10 am

speculating about skyrim is the only way i can control myself untill more info is released :L

what ever the engine, i hope it is incredibly flexible so that a greater variety of mods can be made.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:31 am

If Elder Scrolls ever decides to go full-scale, full-sized Tamriel, This engine will suffice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmeiXEm9hFY

Oh my goodness, that is simply... EPIC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_BJLfq1ntI

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:41 am

well, that "outerra" thing would be interesting... but would a full-scale tamriel even be playable on consoles?

i doubt bethesda would go back to PC-only, cause that would cut down their profits quite a bit, not to mention start a freaking riot, the likes of which will have never been seen before.

besides, i think they'll most likely go in-depth with each province before they try making a full-scale tamriel again.

...that'd most likely be alot of work.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:34 am

that outtera engine looks a little low res, i think it would be more suited for an rts personaly..

omg....a planetary RTS using outtera *drool*