Ok.. good point. Did you see the second half of my post?


Riverwood is red if you missed that part too.

yeh he is awaiting execution, but he was captured on the border

I don't think you start the game in one of the dungeons.

You're suppose to feel lost. Lost and small. That's the whole point. Fallout 3 did a better job of easing you into the main quest too, so I don't really feel like this is a problem. I'm just saying I want that feeling of being lost, alone, and small in Skyrim. I want my amazing view of the world, because its simply that. Amazing.

The light hits your eyes, its hard to see. The music builds up. And then the wasteland hits you in the face. You feel like you can see for miles, and yet you somehow know that there is still so much you can't see. Its so big, and you feel so small. Part of you wants to turn back, but you know that you can't. You have to walk forward into this huge world. You feel something, it brings out emotions in you that we can't get now adays with roads going everywhere. Its that sence of being an explorer.

You should feel something in a game. If you just step out of a jail to some back ally, you will not get that same feeling. It shouldn't just be a business as usual beginning, time to get some quests and save some people and make some gold. It should be a moment where you stop, set the controler/mouse down and just look at what is infront of you. Where you get a sence of really being in some strange and amazing place. You shouldn't know what to do first. You should be feeling so much well up inside you, that explorer in everyone coming to the forfront, and you should get excited, because all the things you can see before you are places where you can go explore.

That's why I dislike Morrowinds beginning. Is so lackluster, so boring. It takes no time at all, and leaves nothing to remember about it. You litterally get off a boat, go into a town, and that's it. New Vegas also suffers from this. You're first look at the world is some windblown town with a mountain on the other side blocking your view. It doesn't leave you in awe, you have to go up to the graveyard for that amazing view.

That first tutorial in Oblivion and Fallout 3 were long, sure. Did they need to be that long? Probably not. But they were entertaining the first time through, and gave new players a taste of what's going on. Besides, I'm still finding interesting things going on in Fallout 3's intro. There's so many different ways to go about that beginning that its still entertaining. You can sneakily follow the Overseer on your birthday, and he'll badtalk you right before leaving the area. You can take the gun from that girl, or let her keep it, and that leads to multiple things that happen. And that bully's mom, you can choose to save her or leave her to the radroaches. That one couple that gets shot down by the guards too. And the goat has so many strange answers that its still funny to take that test and see what job they give you, and stay there and listen to what jobs everyone else gets.

Those tutorials serve another perpose though. They're long for a reason. You get caught up in them. For those thirty minutes, you forget that its an open world game and go along with the liniar tasks...because of all the other games we've played, that reaction is only natural. You do as you're told, and follow along till you're finally booted out into the world. And then you remember, you can do anything. And then those feelings I was talking about well up in the player. That sence of adventure you can't find in some back ally.

Yes, this explanation is just as long as the openings, but I wouldn't have it any other way. If they just kicked you into some ally quick like, you wouldn't get that sence of amazement and adventure. Even if they kicked you out and hit you with an amazing view right away, it wouldn't be the same. That long build up is important to the feel, and that's why they should stay with the longer ones.

You misunderstood me. I'm aware of this already.


But you could. No one ever said you don't. Besides, how do you know it's a dungeon? It could be just a marked location like Hero Hill in Oblivion.

While I can understand your points honeybee, I couldn't possibly disagree more. Oblivion's tutorial is one of the few things I can think of that the game did better than Morrowind, that DIDN'T have anything to do with advanced technology.

Of course I freely acknowledge that with the years of TES experience under my belt that I could handle just about anything Bethesda throws at me. Including fighting dragons about an hour into the Main Quest. Bring it on you flying fiery fetchers

Falkreath is already next to a road that crosses the border into Hammerfell. The location you highlighted is nowhere near the border.

I actually enjoyed the tutorial. Especially the fact that you got to come back later to kill your cellmate. I am only complaining about what happens after the tutorial. It didn't ruin my enjoyment of the game it just broke my immersion for a moment.

I am not afraid that I won't be able to "handle" dragons early on. I am just afraid it will take some of the fun away to have them show up too early.

Also: Please stop accusing me of being some Morrowind purist that hates Oblivion. Morrowind had an amazing world to get immersed in, but was flawed in many ways and suffered from repetitive and boring quests.

I know I know. I jsut figured it out.

You are being led to your execution and just as you put your head on the chopping block, a dragon flys in and eats everyone. Then you escape to safety. right?

I don't understand how, but okay.

I wasn't directing that comment at you. But since you brought it up, I'm not worried about dragons losing the fun factor because I run into them too soon, as I'm imagining that battling them is going to be new and interesting each time it happens.

Who's accusing anyone of anything? I was pretty sure you liked Oblivion more than Morrowind to begin with, else you'd have more to complain about than just the opening. The Morrowind purist, if there's one here at all, would actually be me. I don't really hate Oblivion per se, but as I said, the tutorial/opening is one of the few things it did better than Morrowind (that wasn't connected to technology).

Don't you think it's more probable that whoever caught the character would have taken them somewhere to be held until their execution rather than do them right there on the spot? Why does the beginning of the game have to start off near the border just because our main guy was caught crossing it? This could be weeks or even months after they commited the crime.

Besides, if it were near the border in Falkreath, Riverwood would not be described as "the first settlement you encounter". If you haven't looked already, there are three village sized grey boxes in that area. All are closer than Riverwood. It has to be one of the boxes I http://i55.tinypic.com/300901d.jpg. Those are the two within the nearest proximity excluding what is obviously http://i56.tinypic.com/14tyals.jpg (in yellow) on the Throat of the World.

If you were arrested in Minnesota, you wouldn't be taken to jail in Nevada. Riverwood was also described as "one of the first" towns you visit not "the first." Falkreath is one of the 9 major hold cities. There aren't going to be prisons in little towns.

If you were arrested in Minnesota, you wouldn't be taken to jail in Nevada.

Riverwood was also described as "one of the first" towns you visit not "the first."

There aren't going to be prisons in little towns.

One of the locations I highlighted and the one I truly believe marks the place where you start the game is http://i56.tinypic.com/fm3p85.jpg.


In that case, why would it even be described as such when there are three other towns closer to the border where you're suggesting you begin?


I never said there was? But it's not like anyone knows that for sure anyway. I don't think you've considered a dungeon type prison in the wilderness.

I'm not suggesting you begin outside of prison. You have the 5 massive cities in the game which are hold cities, as well as 4 other hold cities. Falkreath is one of them. I believe you start in Falkreath's prison. Some NPC there might say something about how you were captured. I don't think you will get a chance to explore Falkreath because you will be trying to escape with Esbern, possibly underground, which will exit somewhere close to Riverwood.

I'm not suggesting you begin outside of prison. You have the 5 massive cities in the game which are hold cities, as well as 4 other hold cities. Falkreath is one of them. I believe you start in Falkreath's prison. Some NPC there might say something about how you were captured. I don't think you will get a chance to explore Falkreath because you will be trying to escape with Esbern, possibly underground, which will exit somewhere close to Riverwood.

There's an NPC in Riverwood that gives you a quest to Bleak Falls Barrow. They wouldn't make it to where you run into Bleak Falls Barrow before you meet the NPC. You'd have to enter Riverwood from the south side. That's why I say you begin in the prison located in Falkreath.

What are these "hold cities"? There's 5 "massive" cities, around 9 smaller towns and 4 other hold cities? I think they are just regions like Colovian Highlands and not cities.

i totally agree with everything you just said. in a way morrowind's opening gave more of a sense of freedom even though there was more structure and play for what a new player might come across within the next couple hours of playing.

Todd Howard:
“There are 5, what we call, big cities, and they’re all really, really unique. There’s a couple of shots of them. Those 5 are really unique. Skyrim is broken into 9 holds – a hold is like a county and each county is governed by a Jarl, who’s like a King of that county. 5 of those holds are kind of bigger – they have big cities – while the other 4 have smaller, what we would call, like a town. A little bigger than but like that. So towns, we have 8 or 9 of those.”

You do realize I meant the Hold Falkreath, not the city all this time, right?

Edit: For the record, I'm not trying to diss your theory. It sounds plausible and I respect your opinions.