I don't think I have seen anyone talk about this whatsoever, so here goes.

I'm sure we all remember the random conversations in Oblivion. The issue with those, is that they were built of random info stacks of dialog, so when NPC's talked, each line had no relevance to the last one, and they eventually said goodbye. I would love it if you could build info stacks of dialog that were actually related to eachother, to make the random conversations sound more realistic and immersive.

Let me give an example. This is what 2 NPC's having a random conversation in Oblivion would sound like:

NPC 1: "I saw a mudcrab the other day, it was very frightening!"
NPC 2: "I heard that Morealis Carnori's shop was attacked by goblins."
NPC 1: "I sure hope the Imperial guard can stop those theives."
NPC 2: "Goodbye."
NPC 1: "Bye."

Each line had nothing to do with the last one, and it was really stupid to listen to... I would rather the conversation sounded more like this:

NPC 1: "Did you hear what happened down at the inn?"
NPC 2: "No, what happened?"
NPC 1: "Somebody stole all of the mead, and then the roof caught fire."
NPC 2: "Thats horrible! Is Thom alright?"
NPC 1: "He is fixing the roof tomorrow. The guard have no clue who did it."
NPC 2: "I hope they are caught."
NPC 1: "Bye."
NPC 2: "Goodbye."

See how the relevance adds so much to the conversation? Instead of the NPC's going back and forth saying random lines that have nothing to do with eachother, it would be fantastic if they actually had a conversation. Am I alone on this or would you guys also like to see this improved?

Yep,Spot on. It must be improved,it was just messy,the concept was a good one,the interaction,not so.

Though I think they know it too,and'll be working on it.

Also,two guys having a fist fight after a few in the inns after argueing would be a nice touch,with the guards stepping in,but make it a once in a while thing,mot everytime your at an inn....

Plauseable?

So make it like it was in Shivering Isles and Fallout 3? With unique lines for some NPCs?

I'm sure we'll get that.

NPC 1: "I was just thinking..."
NPC 2: "...how Bioshock is still the only game with a good script?"
NPC 1: "Yes."
NPC 2: "Good talk."

Yes they need to talk less. The random chats should be amongst friends. People that acts like the citizens in Oblivion should be thrown in jail.

I fully approve of the fistfights for the eventual laugh. It's been a while, if anyone could clarify if there was such a thing as being able to render a NPC inconscious back in Oblivion I'd be grateful.

I think if they just added more conversions it would be better then making complex ones, so then you wouldn't hear the same conversation over and over again.

If they are an important character they go unconscious instead of dying. That's pretty much the only way to do it.

NPC 1: GET LOST!
NPC 2: What's the news from the other provinces?
NPC 1: I saw a couple of mudcrabs not that long ago... annoying creatures.
NPC 2: STOP TALKING!
NPC 1: Goodbye.

Yeah... I agree, that needs fixing.

Nord 1:"Oy!"
Nord 2:"Eh?"
Nord 1:"You call that a sword?"
Nord 2:"Why yes, I do."
Nord 1:"Mines bigger than yours and has magic runes. What do you think of that, Mr. Pajama-Wearing, Basket-Face, Slipper-Wielding, Clype-Dreep-Bachle, Gether-Uping-Blate-Maw, Bleathering, Gomeril, Jessie, Oaf-Looking, Scooner, Nyaff, Plookie, Shan, Milk-Drinking, Soy-Faced Shilpit, Mim-Moothed, Sniveling, Worm-Eyed, Hotten-Blaugh, Vile-Stoochie, Cally-Breek-Tattie?"

:fist fight breaks out:

That is a good example, a NPC hostile to another one shouldn't speak to him/her. Also, some hostile NPCs shouldn't be concerned about the same things others are, but conversations aren't so badly chained. I think the problem is that while they chain them well, they didn't put enough exceptions on it. Anyway I think they do a pretty good job.

Don't quote me on this, but I think this has already been confirmed....

No... it was the same in Fallout and Shivering Isles, they did not change the dialog system at all. It still randomly threw together a stack of dialog info's that NPC's blurted out before walking away.


What? I'm not saying talk less... I'm saying have an actual conversation instead of saying 6 random setences. Personally I found Bioshock a rather dull game. :shrug:


But I'm talking about reworking the entire conversation system. You are asking for quantity over quality... I think everyone would rather have it the other way around. Plus, this would be a simple engine change to allow for MUCH better random conversations.



Exactly. It's stupid that they just have ADD, say 4 random things then say goodbye... :/


I have heard nothing about this. The only talk of any dialog whatsoever I have heard is that they improved the NPC to player conversations, but nothing about the NPC to NPC ones.

i 100% agree man. it didn't annoy me that the random conversations were there it was amusing... but ya this i completely agree with... well done have a http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r105/Enoil/DarkFishyStick.jpg

Gunmaster95.

Bad grammar on my part. Sorry.

(Bioshock is still the only game where the dialogue/monologue didn't throw me off.)

Guy 1: I Saw a mudcrab the other day... Nasty little creatures...
Guy 2: I HEARD KVATCH HAS BEEN ATTACKED DAEDRA OVERRAN THE CITY!
Guy 1: Farewell.
Guy 2: Hmmmmpfhhhh...

I concur, let's actually have random conversations, not simply lines spouted at random.

While I do agree better random conversations would be nice, I disagree that they were that bad.

I really liked the fact that, for the first time, NPCs actually interacted with each other. And I don't think Bethesda deserves to be faulted for trying something new.

Furthermore, so far none of the so called bad conversations have been actual ones from the game, but exaggerations of human imaginations.

Post some real conversations and we'll have a thread to discuss.

I was just thinking the same thing, unless my memory's even worse than I thought.

What are you talking about. The first example made by the OP is a conversion I've heard a million times in OB. You must not remember the conversations correctly.

I am very confident that the Skyrim conversation will be hugely more random and varied than in Oblivion. For TES IV, conversations in general are very complicated and the Radiant AI is not very advanced. Just looking at the Fallout 3 convos and considering that TES V's convos will be even more complex than that, leads me to believe that we'll be very impressed with it.

Plus, with the lack of camera zooming and similar redundant convo mechanics, I'm sure that Bethesda's been able to squeeze even more juice out of the actual convos, not wasting as much time on the mechanics around it.

The OP was referring to random NPC conversations. Although it is good their fixing the PC with NPC conversations.

LMAO

samurai Jack FTW :toughninja:

Do you mean this?

NPC 1: "I saw a mudcrab the other day, it was very frightening!"
NPC 2: "I heard that Morealis Carnori's shop was attacked by goblins."
NPC 1: "I sure hope the Imperial guard can stop those theives."
NPC 2: "Goodbye."
NPC 1: "Bye."

Notice the separate quotations, they were taken out of context to exaggerate the issue.

More like "I saw a mud crab; terrifying creatures; good bye; bye." <- shortened version

I will not say that they were perfect, but they had merit and there's no use complaining about that fact now.

It beats walking through a city with npcs that all ignore each other.

I'm pretty sure they've improved upon a 6-9 year old mechanic *for Skyrim. (Oblivion is 5 years old, but it was in development for years)

Edit: *for Skyrim

Yeah, my very first example is pretty much right on. I don't think it was exaggerated at all. I could go open the construction set and replace those sentences with real ones... but the idea is exactly the same.



The conversations in Oblivion were actually not complicated at all, which is why they were so bad. You simply create your dialog info, mark the 'random' box, then create some where the npc's say goodbye and mark the 'random end' box. Then, ingame when two NPC's walked up to eachother and began speaking, it would throw together like 3-6 'random' lines, with 2 'random end' at the end. This would lead to NPC's saying the random sentences, then goodbye. It is an incredibly simple system, which is why it was so bad. I would love to be able to create an actual, non-random conversation stack. This would let you make a several sentence long conversation, but you control what sentences are said, therefor you can make it an actual conversation with a point. And not just random lines.