Or we could say Vivec could your port you in. I mean, there are definitely easy, lore-plausible ways to get in besides solely just the ring, I'd say.

It still isn't a simple dialogue fix like she was leaning toward. It would require actual interaction with someone in vvardenfell besides the teleporter woman, and I think that's totally unnecessary Plus, many people kill Vivec.

Ah, thanks. Interesting, but I don't "count" forum posts as canonical, regardless of who made them.

Just a recap on my favourite ideas so far:

Arcimaestro:
if you refuse, she'll get crazy and will scream something like "you want to keep its power for yourself! Hands! Kill him before he wears the ring!"
Then the doors of the High Chapel would be sealed, and the only chance to survive is to wear the ring, so you may travel to Sotha Sil and meet the god. (waht will follow, we'll see)

Helena
- motivation to work for Helseth?
- motivation to create ashstorms?

Alaisiagae
- Perhaps, while some NPCs keep hinting that it is a bad idea, you can have some of the Temple NPCs reassure the player that the Band isn't evil, it is just a tool to be used (for good or ill).
- Nerevar connection?
- Perhaps some new dialog could have her explain what she wants the ring for (well, not her real plan, of course). She could say she caught wind that Dagon is planning to invade Tamriel, and she needs it to thwart some of his minions/sleeper agents. The Band can supposedly allow the wearer to travel across all sorts of realms - perhaps even into Oblivion.

(So the idea that is forming is that she first of all lies and says that you need to turn on the ashstorm machine thingy to prevent some terrible ill, and then blames Sotha Sil and says that she needs the Mazed Band to stop Sotha, who has gone crazy.)

jackfrost:
- you need sotha sil to shut down the Dwemer climate changer

(... or to stop him wreaking further havoc)

[Jac: pls add global]

Alaisiagae:
The simple thing would be to have Barenziah maybe advise the player to play along with Almalexia's game, to see what she (Ayem) is up to.

... Then she could be all like "Oh noes! Sotha Sil tricked me, he's gone crazy from losing power to the heart and wants to steal the power from Vehk and me, he's sending Fabricants via the Band!"

Miriele:
Yes, this. Personally, I was also disappointed that I couldn't go to Vivec with any of this, even after it became obvious that Almalexia was losing it. You're on speaking terms with the guy, and it seems like something he might want to know (even if he'd probably just send you back on the theory that you can handle it yourself).

Agreed. Vivec needs some dialogue - but, like Berry, he could simply advise the player to play along and find some evidence.

I'd say do not involve Barenziah, especially the part with kidnapping her.

Why? I just went trough that quest couple of days ago, and I haven't started anything about assassins and stuff, or to get to my point, I never saw or heard about/from Barenziah. So whoever made the quest like that, why would player want to go rescue Barenziah if she doesn't mean anything to PC, and PC doesn't even know her in personal..

But I like other ideas, and yes, I really dislike those parts. All that jogging trough the sewers starts to be really annoying after a time, I mean come one, practically whole Tribunal mq is done is sewers. And all parts of sewers looks the same. Yeah. lol.

Can't wait to see what you'll come up with

As somebody who thinks that the Tribunal story ought to be less self-contained from Vvardenfell than it is, I'd like to point out that Divayth Fyr and Yagrum Bagarn are also viable subjects for conversation about the events of Tribunal. I especially mention Yagrum because he's one of the most underappreciated characters for dialogue expansion, and even if he knows nothing regarding the subject of Barilzar, he should know a good deal about Bamz-Amschend and the Weather-Witch contained therein. Divayth Fyr, because, well, he knows arguably more about Sotha Sil and Oblivion than Vivec does, and I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't know a good deal about the Mazed Band.

It should also be noted that there does seem to be information about Divayth Fyr's http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/sotha_sil.shtml to the events of Tribunal, so it's kind of disappointing that the Nerevarine can't give him a debrief about it herself.

You could always go with the old, tried and true, you've been poisoned/cursed and only such and such has the cure/can remove it. Baldur's Gate had something like that in it. A geas/geis I think it was called. Not that I've ever gotten that far in the story line. To busy wandering around looking at things. But I think that would the quickest way. What would you have to change or add? A couple of lines?

@Skinjack- Like exactly what happens in Morrowind's main quest already?

I've always dreamed of some kind of turning of the tables, where Almalexia takes the band from you and travels to Sotha Sil to kill him (as usual). But this time, Sotha Sil defeats her, and reanimates her as a machine which he uses like a puppet. He then summons the Fabricants to attack Mournhold and continues hyping up Nerevar until he gets Trueflame then 'Almalexia' sends you to Clockwork City. Then when you get to the chamber, Almalexia is dead and Sotha Sil attacks you.

Oh, in the perfect world!

Oooh sure, ruin the ending for me. Like I said, I've never gotten that far. Too busy sight seeing.

:unsure: Ooh... I thought you meant you never got that far in Baldur's Gate. I'm sorry. That's my bad.

[Edited for grammar]

*Ahem*
Well, my favorite part of the Tribunal quest is the Fabricant Attack on MH, but they talk about how it was "Horrible, bodies eveywhere" and whatnot.
Any chance that during that scene to have a bit more noticeable damage? Like, overturned carts and more broken objects?

My thought regarding giving Almalexia the band, is that while you are told that it's a bad idea to give the band to her, it's hearsay (from a scribe anyway). It's not as if the entire temple is telling you "It's a trap! Don't give it to her!" For that matter, I didnt even realise that you were warned about the ring until I looked it up on UESP 5 minutes ago, so my point may be moot. Maybe expand the knowledge to others in the temple, and have a few people mention it's darker qualities, rather then someone I don't talk to, nor do I have any real reason to about the quest.

The weather machine quest is the one in the most need of an overhaul. Like people have said, what is your motivation for doing so? Maybe work in a discussion with Helseth, and the two of you decide the best move is to create the Ashstorms, although I'm not sure where you can go from there.

All I have to say about this is... that I'm looking forward to this mod, all of your previous mods are fantastic Princess, I'm confident this will be no different from the rest.

A teleport ring. If your going to have new places this may help make things faster when needed. Also I'd like to see a teleport ring of houses and shopping for clothies. This can put people a few feet away from any good shopping mod or house mod. Putting someone directly in a shop or house may be a problem if the person does not have that mod.

Since Morrowind patch project fixed the volume issue... Music in different zones would be nice.

But that assumes that you want anything to do with Helseth, much less trust a word he says...which might be stretching things, considering that he's trying to have you killed every other quest. I've always found Helseth (and Barenziah, by extension) to be even less trustworthy than Almalexia.

I suppose you could always just have the option to outright refuse the weather machine quest, prompting Almalexia to just go start up the ashstorms herself. That takes out the one thing about the Tribunal MQ I actually found to be fun, though (exploring Bamz-Amschend).

Tweek the weather quest. Change the variables so that the weather in Mournhold is -always- bright and sunny... and have her confess that some of her subjects have noted this, and she knows it is unnatural. You get sent to look at the weather machine as a possible reason for this mysterious drought. When you try and 'fix' it, you accidently set it to ashstorms.

Oops. Hearing that you've just stuffed up the local climate and are killing all the flora and fauna faster than before gives you lots of motivation to fix it. Almalexia could imply that Sotha Sil was the one that changed the weather in the first place, with his odd machines (I think the last book of the 2920 series mentions them). The two of you need the Mazed Band to get to the Clockwork City and try and sort things out. Adding in some fabricant attacks makes it even more urgent.

You might find out later that it has merely been a particularly long and hot season, but nothing truly unatural. The PC is unlikely to spend several months in Mournhold to notice this for themselves, afterall. Or it could be that Almalexia had enough power to nudge rainclouds away, but not enough to bring ash storms all the way from Red Mountain.

Hmmm ... that's interesting.

I'm going to go through these ideas this afternoon and basically make a bullet-point list of everything that is going to change, and *how*.

Then I'll make the mod.

i like Arcimaestro's idea allot ( since it would be possable to meet sotha sil.... ) which the interesting thing about his idea is it goes to ways, meaning you could also incorperate some of the other ideas into the mod to .

since you give the barlizars mazed band to almalexia quite early in the TRIBUNAL main qquest , you could use Arcimaestro's idea and add on to that if you refuse to give the mazed band to the goddess, ( thus meeting sotha sil alive ) while if you agree to giving it to her then the main quest will go on the same as before ( and if the player choses to go on with the normal MQ then you could tweak the dialogue and missions for that using some of the other ideas, so in all you could incorperate more then one of these awsome ideas that people are suggesting ... =] just thought i'd point that out it probably would satisfy those who wish to stay the same to the MQ while also satisfy those who wish to actually meet sotha sil and want some change to the MQ for tribunal .

Yeah, it's the reason I'm stalling: I don't want to spend the rest of my life on a mod that I was really only intending to be a minor addition.

That's a really cool idea! Two birds with one stone, while remaining coherent.

Actually i sort of enjoyed tribunial. The only problems were the dialgue based quests where the king was like go talk to this guy. Then you talk to him and report back to the king. Then he orders you to talk to someone else.....

Still i think the main quest for morrowind would be better :/

You could also make it so that if you do a few EXTRA quests then you can save sotha sil from almalexias madness. And he gives you a reward, possibly something to do with his machines???. (more gods enchantments for my armor )

OK, to make an actual bit of progress on this, here are some bits from the walkthrough with insertions in italics:

Gamebanshee walkthrough

Once Tribunal is installed, find a nice place to rest, and go to sleep for a bit. You'll be interrupted by up to a couple of formidable Assassins nearby. If you search the body after they're killed, you'll find an odd looking dart. Find any guard and report the assassination attempt. If you then attempt to rest before the matter is taken care of, you'll have to deal with more Assassins... every time you rest.

I would insert here some sort of player-induced switch, so you don't have to put up with attacks when you don't want them. The player would have to start the main quest, rather than being annoyed by assassins the whole time.

The guard tells you that the attack looks like an act of the Dark Brotherhood and suggests that you speak with Apelles Matius in Ebonheart to learn more. (The fastest way to Ebonheart short of a Recall spell is to buy a teleport to the Vivec Mages guild, go outside and to the northeast end of the building, jump off using a slowfall enchanted item or potion or jump into the water, and use the boat nearby.)

You'll find Apelles Matius walking the battlements on the southern end. He'll tell you that the Dark Brotherhood has a large contingent in the capital of Mournhold and to speak with Asciene Rane in the Grand Council Chambers about transport there.

Add a transport NPC with her to bring along companions

Step inside the southern most building and you'll see Asciene Rane on the right side as you enter. Speak with her and she'll gladly transport you there, but not before telling you to speak with Effe-Tei and then a guard in the Royal Palace once there.

You're now officially in the Mournhold Royal Palace Reception area. Effe-Tei the Argonian is there in the room. Speak to the Argonian and then speak with a guard, and you'll learn that the Dark Brotherhood operates out of a base accessible from the sewer system underneath the Great Bazaar.

You can immediately attempt the quest, but my suggestion is, now that you can rest without fear of sleep-interrupting attempts on your life, have some fun by exploring and learning the layout of the city. Perform some miscellaneous quests in Godsreach or the Great Bazaar, and visit the Temple. You'll find more quests there from Fedris Hler.

--------

Chances are you have other quests to complete, perhaps the one about the Goblin City from Fedris Hler, or perhaps you've moved even beyond that.

In any case, the Dark Brotherhood is located in the sewer system beneath a trap door in one of the corners of the Great Bazaar. You won't find them immediately, but if you look around, you'll find the doors to the Manor District in Old Mournhold. Once inside, your journal will update.

There are plenty of assassins and journeymen of the Dark Brotherhood inside that are leveled to be a match with your character. Be sure to pick up their weapons as they're light and worth a lot. Make your way to Moril Manor, North building in the Manor District to find their leader, Dandras Vules. You'll have no choice but to kill him, at which point your journal will be updated. Search his body for a contract on your life that was ordered by a figure with the letter "H"... probably the King you've been hearing about.

Report your finding to a guard and he'll tell you to speak with the Captain of the Royal Guards in the Palace Throne Room, Tienius Delitian. You'll find him right above the Reception area with Effe-Tei, through a door to the throne room.

Tienius will admit to your execution warrant, but offer a worthless excuse and ask you to help him aid the King.

At this point, you can jump back and forth between a set of quests for Tienius Delitian that further the story, and some of the quests in the Temple, if you speak with Fedris Hler in the Temple Reception Area. These Tienius quests are the ones that it's possible to skip if you work your way up in the Temple quests. But why not do them at some point? They don't take long, and none require fighting if you choose not to.

Improve Tienius's dialogue but leave that part essentially unchanged.

------

Location: Royal Palace Throne Room, Tienius Delitian

Tienius wants to find the source of rumors about the King Llethan's Death. You're to speak with the people and find out more information about them. This is pretty straightforward but as of the first version of Tribunal is somewhat of a bug. You can complete this quest simply by speaking with a few different people about "King Llethan's Death" and returning to Tienius. But the proper way to finish is to talk to a few people, and find your way to Ravani Llethan, the King's widow, at her house in Godsreach. Talk to her about King Llethan's Death and offer condolences. Then do the same thing again and this time ask her about the murder. She'll point out that the paper "The Common Tongue" has all the information about the poisoning of the King.

It's easy to find. Just outside her door, in a niche behind Sadri Manor you'll find one copy. Another is behind the outside pawnbroker under the domed tent in the Great Bazaar. There are others. Pick one of them up and take it to Tienius and he'll absolve you of this quest. You can then receive your next quest.

------

Location: Royal Palace Throne Room, Tienius Delitian

This is about finding out whether the Temple has any plans to act against King Helseth. You're to wander over to the Temple, and find someone discontented. The person you're looking for is Galsa Andrano, a healer at the Temple's Infirmary (enter and take the door to the right). Speak to her about the discontentment, and then listen sympathetically. You'll learn that the Temple plans to destroy the King if he does not step down.

Report back to Tienius of this information and he'll congratulate you, and inform you of possible disloyalty among the royal guards, another quest.

No change here: you don't have to promise to help her, even if you intend to.

Location: Royal Palace Throne Room, Tienius Delitian

Tienius asks that you pretend to be joining the royal guard, and use that as a conversation starter while talking to his guards to get them to trust you and to weed out any disloyalty. You'll want to begin with Ivulen Irano, the first guard to the left as you enter the Throne Room. Bring up "join the Royal Army", and then mention your Hlaalu connections. He'll tell you to speak with Aleri Aren, but not to Tienius about that.

If you go back to Tienius and tell him what Irano said, he'll say you should seek out Aleri Aren, who is in the Guard's Quarters. She's right inside the door as you enter from the palace courtyard. Talk to her about "join the Royal Army" and then Hlaalu connections, and she'll say that Irano was lying. Report back to Tienius if you want some more help on the case. He'll say to check around Irano's bed and chest in the Guard's Quarters for something tangible.

Head back to the Guard's Quarters, and upstairs at the foot of the first bed, you'll find Irano's chest. Walk around the bed and look on the floor. There's a handwritten note. Pick it up and take it to Tienius. The note has three suspicious guards always on the same shift. Tienius makes a point of changing the shift duties around and then assigns you your next quest, finding evidence of a conspiracy against King Helseth. Paranoid aren't they?

No change at this point, either

--------

Location: Royal Palace Throne Room, Tienius Delitian

This time Tienius Delitian somehow gets word of a conspiracy against Helseth, and wants you to search Ravani Llethan, King's widow's home for documents or other evidence. She's still in Godsreach at Llethan Manor, and in the room she's in there's a desk behind her with a handwritten letter. The letter infact points toward a conspiracy involving three people: Forven Berano, Hloggar the Bloody, and Bedal Alen.

Be careful when you take the letter. Try and have the widow face away from you and then sneak it away, otherwise the people of the house will be after you. It doesn't really adversely affect anything if you're caught, so just run out if you can't do it inconspicuously.

When Tienius has a look, he'll offer writs of execution to those three people, but has no clue where to find them. Talk to someone to whom you have a high disposition with, either a guard, bribe someone, or Barenziah, who will tell you their approximate location. In any order, speak with Forven Berano on the north eastern part of the Temple Grounds outside. You'll find Hloggar the Bloody if you go down the sewers in Godsreach, and then head to the West End Sewers. Bedal Alen is in the bookshop in the Great Bazaar.

When you speak to any of them, you'll be offered two choices. You can either kill them or allow them to escape, meaning you'll need to tell Tienius that someone got to them sooner than you. If you kill them, you'll be offered either 1k, 2k or a 3k reward from Tienius depending on how many you killed, but you'll still complete the quest if you allow them to escape, and you'll have their gratitude.

Tienius then has one final task, regarding the paper "The Common Tongue".

Insert alt: Tell Ravani that the king has sent you for evidence, but that you have an idea and that she'll have to trust you - disposition check - she'll GIVE you the letter, and you can then double-cross the king by allowing them to escape - this time to a preplanned location where they can regroup and plan their next attack.

---------

Location: Royal Palace Throne Room, Tienius Delitian

Mr. Delitian wants you to find the anonymous writer of "The Common Tongue" and make sure they stop "spreading the lies". Find a person other than a guard that you can get to a high disposition with, and ask them about the "anonymous writer". I spoke with Barenziah in her chambers behind the throne. Whoever you speak with, they'll tell you to check with a shady character, as in a pawnbroker.

There's a pawnbroker in the Great Bazaar, though it's the one inside the building rather than the one outside in the tent. Speak with the Argonian Pawnbroker 'Ten-Tongues' Weerhat who you might have to persuade to a high disposition, and he'll reveal that the writer is Trels Varis, who was last heard of in the Craftsmen's Hall in Godsreach.

There are a few ways you can complete this quest. At this point, you can investigate further, as you know that Granny Varis is in the Temple Reception Area. If you speak with her, and then her husband, Gee-Pop Varis outside on the western lawn of the Temple Grounds, you'll perceive that they are covering up something, and an idea will spawn to tell Trels Varis that you threatened his parents when you see him. Or, you can simply go to the craftsmen's hall directly and skip the Gee-Pop and Granny part of the quest, but won't have the threaten option.

Go there, and speak with the inhabitants in the Hall. They'll know nothing but your journal will update that you believe Trels Varis is there somewhere. You'll want to open the locked door labeled "Keep Out!" with a lock level of 70. Inside is a trap door down to a secret room with four people, the leader of the group being Trels Varis.

When you speak to him, you're offered a few choices. Unfortunately, you either need to kill him, or bribe him a lot of money for your journal to properly update. If you select the "I'm searching for the Eye of ..." response, he'll applaud your creativity and allow you to leave, but your journal won't update and he won't talk to you again. So the only way to complete the quest if you select that option is by killing him. The peaceful way is to tell him to stop the lies, and then offer to bribe him to stop. If you bribe him 1000, he'll attack you. Bribe him 3000 and he's yours.

I'd like to include another option here - the result would have to be the same, logistically - that they stop printing the papers - but the player should be able to offer some sort of assistance to the "resistance" - such as suggesting they're too close to being found here and are in too much danger, but should perhaps lie low for a while or something. Open to suggestions.

Report back to Tienius when you're through and he'll reward you for your efforts. If you spent the 3000 on Trels Varis, tell Tienius that your compensation should be at least 3000. He'll reward you 8000. Another option with Tienius, for a nice enchanted daedric claymore, is to instead say, "All in the king's service." Thanks to John for submitting that.

After this, he tells you that Barenziah wants to speak with you.

Both of your major revisions (adding alternate paths to the Helseth portions of the MQ) are practically music to my ears. :thumbsup: Simple changes but much needed, IMHO. (Especially for RP purposes!)



Sounds about right. Even if they stop printing "The Common Tongue," their lives remain in serious danger--the Nerevarine could give them up at any time (either willingly or not), and I doubt Helseth, clever as he is, will be satisfied with their simply "promising" to no longer print broadsheets. He's going to want an example made of them at some point or another. My suggestion would be to include an option to suggest to them that they leave the city, as quickly and as quietly as possible, and perhaps get in touch with the men Ravani had hired (or Ravani herself, if they aren't in contact with her already--the vanilla MQ kind of implies that they are, at least to me.). Strength in numbers and all that.

wow, this sounds great P_S!

I love mods that add more dynamic questing and choice. Gives morrowind that little bit more of a "Its your own game" type of feel. Know what i mean?

=MA=