I don't see how it seems static. NPCs have jobs and occupations, earn money, have random events like fighting over a sword or returning it to you, there has been talk of them liking you less if you push their stuff around, treating intrusions differently based on their attitudes to you, taking certain roles in quests based on your interactions with them (R-AI seems to have a lot to do with RS), having full memories of all these interactions, and presumably doing other things they also did in Oblivion like stealing from one another on occasion and so on. I would say it is a very significant improvement.

And with these improvements, who is to say that opposing factions won't fight each other, or destroy each others resources (though 2 competing shops would have the same resource, so not much point there) or good stealth characters won't jailbreak? Those seem minimally more impressive, if at all, than the examples that have been previously mentioned. I think how they have explained it, the system sounds quite impressive.

@ OP: I think your judging a little early.After what happened with the clip of oblivion it's no wonder they are taking their time showing the AI. "My opinion" They tried to make the AI like what was shown in that oblivion demo,but later realized it didn't work to well ( sort of out of control,more than they expected ). Sometimes dev's have to make tough decisions.In the end they had to tone it down for oblivion,but alot of people said it was a con,i believe other-wise. We have more to know yet,so let's wait and see. Besides,i thought the AI in oblivion wasn't bad at all,and was a lot better than most/if not all games at the time. To me bethesda obviously cares about their reputation and not just money,yes,they need money,they wouldn't get far without it.But they are still going to have a sense of pride and an interest to push the boundries. What makes me laugh sometimes is how much people bang on how bad oblivion was,then turn around and say it had great mods or they played 500 + hours. Anyway,too early to try and judge AI,we'll see what they do.

Yes, BGS has made various improvements to make NPCs feel more lively. My point is, besides these improvements, do they actually do anything else? Do they actually fight each other if it is in their best interest? Do they try and steal things from one another?

I think you can scratch NPCs reacting to the player dropping a weapon and being aware of a family member's death from Radiant AI improvements (or at least strike them from known improvements). So far, the only time Bethesda or an official preview mentions either of those kinds of things, it is only to highlight what is being done through Radiant Story.

Radiant AI improvments mentioned on http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/b/xbox360/archive/2011/01/17/the-technology-behind-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim.aspx?PostPageIndex=1 are pretty much small things to correct what seems odd in Oblivion. An NPC's disposition toward you will influence how he reacts when you break into his home or take something he owns. An NPC will notice when you are swinging a weapon near him or are knocking over his stuff and will react because of it.

I do not know what you mean by NPCs "actually having a job." There are NPCs with jobs in Oblivion. Some run shops, some farm, some guard, some beg, some practice with their weapons, and some are admitted loafers or retirees. Bethesda has added animations so that NPCs appear to be doing more than pacing around staring at walls. I remember Todd talking about adding those kinds of animations for Fallout 3. He saw them as mostly cosmetic improvements, things to dress the AI's idling moments, not as modifications to the AI itself.

We already here about them fighting over things on the ground, and I seem to recall hearing about bar fights, and they stole from each other even in Oblivion, so I don't doubt at all it will be in.

I think what actually happens is the dog barks on schedule and the woman paralyzes it on schedule. The dog barks again on schedule and the woman flames it on schedule. The timing of the actions produce the illusion that the woman is reacting to the dog's barking. NPCs having schedules and pursuing goals and having dynamic conversations seems to be what the demo is supposedly about, nothing more.

I'm not sure if using the AI to drive big events like guild conflicts would be the best use of it. If the Fighters Guild and Thieves guild start fighting, they should be talking about it and giving me missions relating to it if I'm a member of one or both. If these things happen but doesn't affect the dialogue and quests it'd be less believable than not happening at all, but that'd have to be planned out in advance because of the voice acted dialogue. If they're going to do that, they might as well turn the whole thing into a quest with specific characters and reasons why they're fighting since people can write better stories than a computer can.

Maybe we can see more than 2 minutes and 54 seconds of mashed up gameplay scenes before jumping the gun?

I personally though the E3 presentation of Oblivion was amazing. It doesn't matter what the woman did to the dog, but the fact that she reacted to its actions that made it amazing. She obviously had no intention of killing it. She was just merely disciplining it in the world of Cyrodiil, which would seem ridiculous by our standards.

Yeah. I'm just under the impression BGS doesn't feel the need to have to really push Radiant AI that much further at this point. The more control they give the AI, the less control BGS has over their actions, which is why Radiant AI was simplified in Oblivion and why I think BGS is cautious of improving upon it.

Now a while back we found out about " magnetism" Which a lot of us didn't like,including me...but i then changed my mind when i sat and thought about it.
Anyway,from the articles we've read over the last week or so,i don't think anyone mentioned or picked out about the magnetism. ( at least to my kowledge .)
So that begs the question: Is it that noticeble at all or was it not in there yet? I believe it was in there,but it wasn't noticed. So are our worries about that now set to rest?....Because if it was that bad,wouldn't it have been noticed?

I'd wager a fair sum of money that that sequence was scripted from start to finish.

Actually, they were showing off what radiant AI is capable of, and I believe they stated that it was not scripted.

A non-scripted demo? How would that be possible?

Hey guys,
I just wanted to know if anyone else thought that perhaps BGS is playing it too safe with Radiant AI again. While they are definitely making improvements with npcs noticing the player drop a weapon, being more interactive with the player, being aware of their family member's death, and actually having a job, they still seem rather static.

Does anyone else also feel that BGS may be playing it too safe with Radiant AI with Skyrim? It has been five years since Oblivion, and I would argue we are really not seeing that much of an improvement.

"they still seem rather static"? From where, might I ask, do you draw this conclusion? You haven't seen anything of the AI from the game at all, so how can you say that it still seems static? Let's wait until we have actually seen something of it before we start drawing conclusions like this.



"Not seeing much of an improvement"? Man, it's 6 months till the release of this game, we haven't seen half of it yet!


My conclusion to this thread is: lol... :rofl:

I understand why Bethesda tuned done radiant AI right before Oblivion's launch - if the npc's were running wild and breaking the game, it would quickly depopulate towns and cities haha.

...however. They've had 5 years to work on skyrim - I would like to see a good balance when it comes to the npc's - enough freedom of action that some chaotic events happen occasionally, but not all the time. Or have some unrestrained generic npc's like pickpockets and mercenaries, that can be easily killed by the town guards when they run rampant.

NPCs have been reacting to a player having his/her sword out since Morrowind. As far as actually having job, half the NPCs in Morrowind didn't have jobs. They would wander around aimlessly in town, eat randomly, and then go to sleep randomly. Now, all npcs actually will be making use of their time doing believable tasks, instead of wandering aimlessly. Cosmetic or not, they are improving the system. I'm just curious how much they are actually improving it, which at this time (besides what they have announced) seems minor at most.

How is dropping a weapon in any way related to Radiant Story? It's not at all, as it is clearly an improvement to Radiant AI. As far as relatives dying, sure that is a mechanic if the person happened to have a quest for you, but I'm sure it will work the same even without Radiant Story.

Wandering through town, you could enter your inventory and decide to drop a heavy two-handed weapon rather than sell it at a nearby shop. In some instances, the weapon might be forgotten in the mud. At another time, a young boy might grab it up and rush after you, asking if you had dropped it and might like it back. In a third instance, two burly men might reach the weapon at the same time, and begin to fight over who will take it home.

Your wrong. Have you ever used the CS for Oblivion?
Watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWvbVhfWnK0
As well as the other three parts. I think the stuff about the RAI is at the end of the second part and the beginning of the third, not sure though so just watch all 4 parts.