We shall see. If BGS really had big features for Radiant AI they wanted to talk about, they would have likely talked about them by now.

I want a good GAME. If the Radiant AI winds up doing the same thing that it did a couple months prior to Oblivion's launch, then I'd rather have the derpa-derp AI that was in Oblivion; hearing Hannibal Travin say "I disagree with Arch-Mage Travin's policies on necromancy" is a LOT better than ariving in Anvil to find that everyone killed themselves because a priest stole an apple, at least in my book.

Unless they had a team dedicated to the AI, I really am not going to make demands to the Skyrim team, other than make a game that will be teh roxxorz.

Traditionally, the Fighter's Guild and the Thieves Guild do not get along, and have conflicting interests. This was very apparent in particular in Morrowind, but Oblivion took a different approach.

I agree with you. I think BGS would need to create a small, dedicated team to effectively solve this issue, as it doesn't appear that BGS has tampered too much with Radiant AI in Skyrim. There are definitely improvements, but I think BGS was more focused in other systems that were top priority, like overhauling their engine, making dragons believable, overhauling combat, streamlining menus and skills, making an incredibly detailed and unique world, etc.

No vidoe at all ahs been released showing the average town and what people do in it so I cant tell and no one can yet. Its a bit worrying if they do deside to go more conservative in tis useage, but I honestly dont think they will. They had what we all want in Oblivion, it jsut turned out not to work right in the end. Give them years and years of development time and im sure theyve worked hard on all the kinks

This is true. My concerns are merely coming from the GI article, as well as the various interviews, articles, and previews since. There is a huge focus on the combat overhaul, menu/skill streamlining, dragons, Radiant Story, did I mention dragons? Everything else seems to just fall into the background as if there are not any major improvements to be announced. We know at E3 we will hear about factions, dragon shouts, dragons, and probably the new crime system and different prisons. I just think BGS likes to make practical and certain improvements, which is what they seem to be doing in Skyrim with Radiant AI. Could we see more? Perhaps. But I personally am not expecting it, as there has been no focus of this in their promoting the game thus far.

Before E3?

The reason they were antagonising in Morrowind was because the Fighter's Guild had some connections to the Camonna Tong.


And I think delicate events like this should be handled with scripts, or even better dynamic scripts like the Radiant Story. The AI is just not that advanced today, to make it do things like this and not making it way too chaotic.

Yeah. They have talked about a lot of the other major overhauls and changes. In fact, we know more about the technical changes for Skyrim than anything, and wouldn't Radiant AI news be included with Radiant Story?

Everything we get at E3 will likely be strictly game play-related. We will see more dragon shouts. We will see more dragons. We will hear about factions. We will likely learn about the new crime system and the different prisons present. I'm not personally expecting to hear anything about Radiant AI, as I don't think that is really a focus. I could be wrong though.

I completely agree. I was talking more in regards to menial tasks, nothing major. If two factions were to ever conflict, it wouldn't be something that the player would be missing out on plot/story-wise.

Yeah but the AI system in the CS doesn't allow for anything remotely near what was shown in the scene with the woman and the dog. At least, not without some heavy scripting in the background.

You're going to be pleasantly surprised.

I agree This sounds possible, and from what todd has talked about, this could be the mechanics of some of the examples he's given us already, two similarly intended systems running checks on each other is always a better way to execute a program of any type. So if anything goes south for one system, the other system can set things straight (of course if it works how you'd expect then you wouldn't really notice anything go wrong).

Bravo, I think your on to something.

It would be interesting is Radiant Story was a check to keep Radiant AI in line. However, so far it seems Radiant Story is only being used to make scripted quest more dynamic and random.

Heres a quick comparison for everybody pro Radiant AI and pro Radiant Story. I have no programming background, so I never read code. But this is what I observe happening in a video game.

In Freelancer, a space simulator game, a particular NPC with randomly generated name would spawn, fly to a particular destination, fight or flee from any enemies they encountered along the way, reach their destination and disappear forever.

If you killed that NPC, their friendly NPCs would be hostile towards you, and their hostile NPCs would be more friendly towards you.
If that NPC's faction grew significantly more hostile towards you, then you would start getting randomly generated missions which would make them more hostile towards you (i.e. by blowing them up)

I personally can not see the difference between Freelancer and say, Oblivion, except that Oblivion's AI is on an infinite loop so they can never reach their destination, and their attitude towards you is less dynamic.

Freelancer was released in 2003, 3 years before Oblivion, and it's 'AI' is much MUCH more sophisticated from my point of view. No the AI can not sit down, go to sleep, whatever, but they can respond dynamically to what you are doing. From what Bethesda have said, I am expecting to see something very similar to what I have already seen in video games. I'm hoping that I will be amazed, but I expect that that will be because the game looks good. Crysis looked pretty, but the AI was really awful.

This is the exact reason you should be expecting to hear more about RAI! If it's not their focus, of course they haven't spoken about it yet! My bet is that they are still fine tuning it, and don't want to screw up the RAI like they did with Oblivion, by showing something that won't make it into the game.

Perhaps. At the same time, I'm not going to be hopeful for something that may never come, as that is just setting oneself up for disappointment. While I'm very excited for this game, I like to have realistic expectations and recognize that BGS is on a limited time scale and can only go so far in producing the "perfect" game.

The difference is:
Oblivion is a open-world Roleplaying Game, Freelancer is a Combat Simulation Game. Thus, they had far less to worry about! In Skyrim, a too sophisticated AI could actually break the main quest or other quests, by doing things that was unpredicted of them. An open-world RPG have to have predictable AI to make it work, unfortunately.

True, but you seem a little too pessimistic about the game...

One would hope they could have checks and balances. If things go too far into Sheogorath's madhouse, the forces of Jyggalag step in.

For example, if a towns person begins attacking others, if it is a city with Guards, the guards automatically are as reactive as they are to the player, stepping in, but not attacking the NPC, only saying the typical, "stop right there lawbreaker," or if its a drunk or just a brawl, 'all right. Lets cool down citizen, or else you'll be sleeping it off in the prison." The game could be programmed to have the citizen comply at least 95% of the time, ensuring that the towns never descend into total chaos.

Controlled Chaos, I believe is the usual term. Failsafes, gauranteed pre-programmed stabalizing responses that fit seemlessly in with the gameplay, and ensure that dynamic NPCs don't become game breakers.

I'm going to answer this with another quote. Sorry if that's against forum rules/etiquette.



I find my only problem when attempting to completely complete Oblivion is that I have a life outside the game or I get bored because the task is monotonous. The random attack by dragons in Skyrim WILL cause a lot of quest related NPCs to die, unless Bethesda makes NPCs teleport away to safety while the player deals with the problem. Radiant Story looks like it will prevent these issues from being a problem, so I don't see why we can't have improved AI to boot.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if some quests (with exception of the main quest) were unsolvable. If it's a game mechanic, it's all well and good. If it's because of a glitch, that's not. But in a game like Oblivion, like Skyrim, the player character is just another NPC trying to carve his name into the pages of the elder scrolls, and the game designers can't possibly predict everything the player character can and will do.

P.S. how does multiquote work? I can't sort it out without opening two windows.

Honestly, I can't say I blame him. Myself (and many others for that matter) were a little too OPTIMISTIC with Oblivion, and while not all that bad, many of us were still disappointed. I'd rather be pessimistic and be wrong, than optimistic and be wrong (though being optimistic and right works too XD).

there are certainly improvements but if they are not careful they will get wut they had the first time around.... people killing each ohter until everyone except one person was dead. And if they were too radiant they would be absolutely annoying. if i just got back with some loot i dont need some guy coming up to me drunk picking a fight and then kicking my [censored] or having his friends join in. I dont feel like fighting too many people. I think that most shopkeepers are honest good people and they shouldnt be stealing and sabotaging each ohters merchandise. If all that you said was going on it'd be wayy too much happening at once nobody would be where u want them to be cuz they'd be off doing some crazy shiz.

I would love to see NPC's in different factions actually going out on their own quests. For example, I think it would be pretty awesome if you were walking around at night and see a few members of the Thieves Guild break into a shop or mansion and loot the place! That way, while the player remains the focal point of the game, there is still a realistic world "living" around you.

That would be very nice but with two conditions:
- those infractional groups being formed randomly via npc-npc spontaneous dialogue (not scripted, if the event is scripted then it's not an A.I.-based event)
- guards being able to immobilize and arrest npcs. Otherwise, if there are too many groups of thieves going out at night some of them will be seen, there will be fights and guards will slaughter too many npcs eventually.