Don't remind me. I found myself running from Ogres at high levels, not because they were hard, but because it was so [censored] boring. You'd basically have to carry two swords around to kill them, because your first would Dull-out before the battle ended.

Melee combat in Morrowind was nothing more than I spam my mouse/controller and do the same attack over and over (with the occasional side swipe). Melee damage was also based on a dice roll, so you would sometimes hit the enemy but not actually "hit" the enemy. There was nothing more dynamic about melee combat in Morrowind, other than the fact you could make your melee hit always hit and get crits everytime.

Oblivion was a huge step forward as they got rid of all that nonsense from Morrowind and tried to make melee combat more immersive and realistic. No more dice roll, you either hit the npc or you don't. More variety in swinging your blade and power attacks. Obviously you could now manually block which was also a new addition. These huge changes to the old formula made melee in Oblivion a million times better than Morrowind.

What's the improvement in Skyrim? More blood. Smoother animations. Finishing moves. If anything, Skyrim combat would be a step back as it is really not a change from Oblivion at all.

In your opinion. BTW, lol at comparing Oblivion's perks to Skyrim's. They're night and day bro. Be at least somewhat reasonable if you want to be taken at face value please. Oh, and you can also bash with a torch, 2 handed weapons, and bows. Yes, nice improvements.

yeah lol, light armor preks
perk 1. light armor is crap
perk 2. light armor works like its suppose to
perk 3. light armor is 50% more durable, no protect you more
perk 4. light armor doesn weights half as much
perk 5. light armor doesnt weight anything
perk 6. light amor now 50% better

yeah those are great perks... the first perk for light armor in skyrim is something like XX% more protection with 5 ranks, thats almost already more then oblivion. and light armor is crap, light armor isnt crap?
no no, perks WERE NOT in oblivion

Now wasn't that fun? We should have more of that in Skyrim :bolt:

Yea I addressed that in my post as well. I couldn't believe when I read what he said. He's obviously being completely objective to anything that counters his argument even if it's ridiculous. At least be somewhat open minded.

You didn't actually play Morrowind did you?

Fundamentally the combat is the same. Also, what you declare Nonesense is actually sensible to another person. In reality, all Oblivion added was smoother animations and manual blocking. The "Die Roll" is irrelevant, because it was a mechanic constructed for a different pace of combat. Mirroring D&D's Armor Class in some respects. Overall, that actually produced a better, less repetitious combat system, as battles were decided in a few strikes, rather than twenty minutes of mindlessly hacking an Ogre.

I suggest you go back to Morrowind, and see for yourself. They really are not that different at all.

You just contradicted yourself... You may not have liked the perks in Oblivion, but they were "perks" nonetheless. Skyrim will just have more and they will be "better." This is not some new system BGS is just placing into the game that will change our lives. It has been there all along.

wait rly you may have just made my day man thank you :foodndrink:

I don't have any issues with Oblivion combat, and overall Skyrim has simply built on that concept. I don't want TES to become a game with combo attacks, I want it to have very raw, real time combat. Though blocking with dual wielding would have been nice. Pity thats a fix that will have to be modded in.

He's just making observations. Quit being so hostile

You try coming up with fluidness in integral moves when design criteria are 1st person with narrow FOV. There are certain things that only works well in 3rd person. My only small complaint is that there is no stagger due mass when an animal jumps you. In Oblivion I had no idea about the combat rolls until I accidentally switched to 3rd person view and saw what actually happened, since in 1st person you only magically float over with no indication of actually rolling.

It's sad, but I'll live with it if thats the sacrifice needed to maintain 1st person support.

This.

Weren't the evasive rolls purely cosmetic anyway? I never came across a situation where a roll was any more effective than just taking a few steps backwards or to the left.

There were hardly any perks. It's a major improvement. What kind of combat revolution did you expect? It's been improved. This isn't a combat simulator.

Are you really sure you played Morrowind? Combat in Morrowind was a joke (decent for a 2002 game). It was based on dice rolls, it was a constant spam of your mouse, and having random crits didn't make combat less repetitious but tried to make a system lacking dynamics become more creative. That's why BGS changed the combat to Oblivion's combat. It ultimately was a better combat system. It was a HUGE transition as I can guarantee if they kept that system from Morrowind for Oblivion, people would have turned the game in almost immediately.

The only similarity to the combat in Morrowind and Oblivion is that they are both first person RPGs that are hack and slash based. Besides that similarity, both systems are totally different. It's strange that you would even suggest they are the same, actually argue Oblivion's combat is worse. As far as hacking an Ogre goes, that was level scaling friend, not the actual melee combat. You are arguing a completely different issue that has been fixed in Skyrim.

He's completely neglecting the huge improvement with the perks. Then there's the Dragon Shouts, which we haven't even talked about. The stagger (Fus Roh Dah) and slow time Shouts will add a nice addition to melee.

Dragon Shouts aren't melee combat.

This thread is strictly about how melee combat has not changed since Oblivion. With a few additions to the system and smoother animations, it's the exact same thing. I just want to know if people are disappointed by this and wished BGS would have focused more on making the melee experience better. As I said before, huge leap from Morrowind to Oblivion. That's just not the case for Oblivion and Skyrim in my eyes. You are more than within your rights to disagree, but please keep on topic with melee combat.

I also did recognize that I think perks in Skyrim will be a nice improvement, but it's doubtful they will completely change how melee combat ultimately unfolds.

Dragon Shouts add to the melee combat. It adds tactics and strategy. It's on topic. What did you expect? Like I said, not everything can be a revolution.

And discrediting the perks by calling it "doubtful" that it'll have a major impact on combat isn't really fair. Gregasaurus already outlined a couple of nice additions that will add a lot to melee.

all the blessing stones, all the towns, and all the dungeons are crap to, because the 20 minute youtube video kinda looked and felt the same as all of oblivion.
and dragons are EXACTLY like closing oblivion gates, because i say todd swing at 2 of them
thats basicly what your saying...

/rant

I have high hopes for melee, especially if they are taking Deadly Reflex as their inspiration. Even just copying the thing wholesale without further improvements would have made skyrim melee combat a hundred times better than oblivion.

ehh melee was good in oblivion if you asked me why fix what isn't broken ya know. :brokencomputer:

Alright and I understand that. But in comparison to archery and magic, you have to admit melee combat got the least improvements. Clearly BGS is fine with where melee combat is at and that's fine. I just personally would like to see more from it.

To me, it looks like melee combat HAS changed a lot since Oblivion. And it looks like a huge leap from Oblivion to Skyrim. Similar in scope to that of Morrowind to Oblivion.

Maybe that's why there aren't a whole lot of people agreeing with you.


And since Dragon shouts can be used DURING melee, I'd say it is on topic and part of the melee system.

melee got less attention? it only takes ONE (lol) tweet to drasticly change everything. theve made A BUNCH
wether its new combats moves, backing up is nerfed, or new animations. what did you see that made you think it was like oblivion?