Hey all,

Perhaps this is purely my own observation, but I feel melee combat had the least improvements in terms of the different varieties of combat. Magic looks amazing in Skyrim. I would argue it got the largest make-over and actually has me interested (which is strange as I never use magic in TES). Archery is finally getting needed improvements with being able to zoom in, slow time, do a lot more damage, etc, various aspects you would expect to see in a FPS game that should coincide with ranged combat. Melee is Oblivion with a new paint job. Here's why:

Besides the new animation system (which is great), more blood splattering (okay that's fine) and finishing moves (something different), it's just the same old Oblivion hack and slash. Heck, even the power attacks you will gain as you level melee are the exact same (disarming, paralyzing, knocking over, etc). I just feel that Bethesda Game Studios could have done A LOT more. Am I asking for too much? Perhaps. Are my expectations of game mechanical improvements unrealistic? Maybe. This doesn't change the fact that Skyrim's melee combat is almost identical to Oblivion. The transition in melee combat from Morrowind to Oblivion was huge, but why not Skyrim?

Melee combat was completely horrible in Fallout as well, which you might argue is really a rpg shooter. So why have melee combat then? I just feel BGS has not found an adequate way to really change and revolutionize how melee combat can be performed. So instead, they made the animations smoother, added some more blood splatter, tried to make the npcs seem more alive, and put finishing moves in to try and take our attention away from the same hack and slash formula. Perhaps I'm overly-critical, but it's because I care. BGS is by far my favorite game developer. Ever since Morrowind, I have been fully on-board with all of their games, but melee combat just doesn't seem to be making the transformation magic and archery are getting. Anyone else feel that melee is somewhat disappointing? If not, feel free to explain why.

Just a few ideas for how melee could be better:

Combo attacks
Counters
Less basic hack/slash and more complex and integral moves (perhaps could evolve as you level your skill)

and you......played the game?

Xbox > 360; 360 > 360

Eh, i'll live with it as it is.

20 minute demo kind of gives you an idea of how the combat works in Skyrim. As I said, Oblivion with a paint job.

@ Fortis Ignavus - You don't need the next generation of consoles (Xbox 720) to make the combat better. BGS just decided Oblivion melee combat was fine as is with a few tweaks. Look at the change of magic from Oblivion to Skyrim and it's the same console.

You haven't played the game. You do not know how the combat will work. Looking at the videos I think melee has a lot more weight to it now. It seems to me like you can't just go in and hack away. You have to make sure you time your attacks well enough to do some real damage.

I have to see how each weapon feels before I can make any such judgement on how much the melee was improved. I like what i see on paper so far but playing will be the tell all.

I agree, more or less.

There's a perk called Riposte under the block tree that lets you do a counter-attack. The top perk in the tree on the offensive side is called Shield Charge, and lets you sprint with your shield raised, knocking over people in your way.
As you perk up in the one-handed and two-handed trees you'll get new moves, like a sideways power attack with two-handers that hits every enemy around you.

wait, you PLAYED a 20 minutes demo? or you SAW TODD PISS ABOUT FOR 20 MINUTES
big difference, we havnt seen any real combat
todd has all over the place perks, his weapons were all unperked an wierd.
todds 20 minute demo was MARKETING, not indicative (and i know how crazy this sounds) of how the game actualy plays

You know, the biggest problem I have with combat is that at high levels, most characters will probably have a ton of HP and combat will probably take a long time. I'd like it if everyone, PC included, had relatively small amount of health, so that combat could be much faster and deadlier.

Really wish people would stop saying this. It's still possible to make observations.

Anyways, OP, I think you have a point. But I would point out that melee needed the least improvement. Magic was boring, it's not anymore. It was impossible to hit anything, and that's fixed. Archery plain svcked before, and now it looks awesome. Now, as of oblivion, I personally think melee was the least broken of the combat roles. The main problem with it was pacing, and animation. Both have been fixed. Other than that, and the occasional swarming in larger fights, I think the melee combat was pretty realistic. And now it's more realistic.

So what you are saying is a 20 minute in-game video of skyrim melee combat wasn't actually melee combat? Right... I saw enough of how melee combat worked for the player and with npcs to realize it's more or less identical to Oblivion.

this is the skyrim thread not the oblivion thread...
o wait i think you know that o.O
level scaling is like fallout, it level what enemys you encounter and doesnt increase their HP.

To me, after watching all the gameplay videos, melee looks to be about 4 million times better than Oblivion.

I'm not saying it looks great. Just 4 million times better than Oblivion.

I agree with you. Melee combat was the least broken out of the three forms of combat. At the same time I don't think that's an excuse not to try and improve it more. Maybe I'll just have to wait until TES VI before they make any huge improvements to melee combat, but Oblivion melee was far from perfect. There is always room for improvement and I'm just personally disappointed melee is more or less the same. I guess I may just have to mix in more archery and magic this time to keep things interesting.

you dint see a 20 minutes melee combat demo you say a 20 minutes skyrim demo. there was PLENTY of times (in combat) where he was casting magic.
if you notice todd isnt even TRYING, sometimes he'll just not swing for no decernable reason. his weapons damages are all over the place because his perks are all over the place.
the path he was on was VERY scripted. most of the time he was walking or futsing around in his inventory.

there is just no way you can not only know alot about skyrims melee combat from that demo, but NO WAY IN HELL you make a judgment like they dropped the ball on it.

I actually never had a problem with OB's hack-n-slash styled combat. I found my own strategy during the combat, and actually had plenty of fun slashing my oponents down.

Skyrim's new combat may be similar, but I see a LOT more potential with it. I'll be mostly using magic+weapons, so I have to forgo my defensive strategy and develop a new one.
And the finishers... well that's just an added bonus I've been wanting to see since Morrowind. ^_^

One thing I hope is added into the next TES game (or maybe it's in Skyrim as a perk) is the ability to do parries, or have a chance to do one while dual wielding. Would add a nice defensive touch at times.

Nope. Characters used in the demo were capped at 500 mag/sta and 999 hp. At release time Todd stated that battles would be very quick and visceral and either you or your opponent would die very quickly. I imagine that they have given every NPC in the game the same cap as the player and the same perks, potions, and enchants that we use will give them buffs and abilities beyond the standard mortal coil we all share. No more damage sponges, kill or be killed.

"Dropped the ball"? Lol. They've added dual wielding, perks, bashing moves, finishers, etc...

@Worm You changed your avatar!?

Yeah, but those other enemies you encounter at higher levels have higher HP, so my point still stands
Also, the player health increases with levels.

Honestly, I prefer it simple, because I am an incredibly skilled gamer. The more direct control I can actually have, the easier the game becomes. RPG's present a unique aspect of difficulty by keeping certain things "In fate's hands" so to speak. The difficulty and enjoyment is conferred another way, if you're seeking 72-hit-combos, I suggest Shinobi or Ninja Gaiden.

The same goes for things like Mount & Blade's combat. Once you have a grasp of the timing and mechanics, it's pretty much lights-out for the challenge of the game. "Barebones" so to speak, means that the playing field is that much more level against the AI.

One more thing too, the actual jump between Morrowind and Oblivion's combat actually wasn't that great at all, if anything it was somewhat of a backstep. We got manual control of our blocking, but we lost a lot of weapon dynamics, and at the end of the day, both Morrowind and Oblivion amounted to click/triggerfests in combat. So I have no idea where this "Great Leap" came from. It was Baby steps, and the baby lost it's foot along the way.

If what you say is true, you've just made me a very happy man. :celebration:

Dual wielding - Okay
Perks - They were in Oblivion.
Bashing moves - You mean shield bashing? Okay a new move.
Finishers - A lame alternative to actually improving melee combat imo.

These are nice additions, but nothing that makes melee combat in Skyrim so much better than Oblivion.

in oblivion tho ogres..es health...s....was? anyway, 26 TIMES your level, with a min of 403!!!! so at level 50 1300 HEALTH

no THAT, was broken