I was referring more so to GTA V, a game that has been out for two years and is still being charged at full price. Yes, they did a "definitive edition" adding first person and better visuals. The game is still almost identical to its original release. There is no GotY edition in sight and I'm not sure there will be as Rockstar plans to support GTA Online for a certain amount of time, which generates money in its cash shop (a way of making more money without a GotY title).

Call of Duty isn't just known for it's multiplayer. It's also very well known for its single player. Activision invests a lot into both because they have customers who only care about one or the other. Battlefield is different because that is an FPS known only for its multiplayer and people could care less about its single player.

Huh? Some of the biggest franchises in gaming "piss off the very thing that's giving [them] lifeblood" and they are able to get away with it because they will be successful regardless. These franchises are too big to fail because they have a built in player base of gamers who will always buy these games. As far as the gaming media, it's a known fact they've been paid and bribed by the major publishers for years so that's a silly point to make.

You aren't proving your point by bringing up CoD at all, in fact you are undermining your point. Call of Duty has been utter crap since CoD4:MW1. After that game released Activision fired the founders of Infinity Ward and the creators of CoD. Since then, the franchise has barely evolved or innovated, yet it continues to make an insane amount of money. It doesn't matter how poorly Activision treats their audience and how they repackage the same game every year, the success of the franchise since 2007 proves people will buy anything regardless of how they are treated.

Establishing a good relationship is better in the long run, though. You'll see on these very forums that a bunch of us are sold on the season pass for the sole reason that we feel we can trust Bethesda to make it worth it, compared to other publishers like EA. It pays to be the stand-up guy compared to your competitors, and I feel Bethesda (as a complete publishing entity) does care about the quality of their product and their relationship with the consumer. I like spending money on a publisher I can respect, as opposed to buying a game in spite of crappy business practices like what some of the other companies try.

Oblivion had its original release, GotY release, and then a 5-year anniversary merely as a way of building up hype for Skyrim.

This is what is concerning. BGS is expecting us to pay $60 for a base game and $30 for a season pass for two things we don't know anything about. It's a leap of faith they expect the buyer to take without any show of effort on their part. It's quite scary as a consumer because we are left at the behest of BGS. We have no flexibility to determine whether this is something we want or not. BGS is just betting those who want the game will buy it all and that will be it. They are expecting to win GotY and they are expecting this to be their most successful game to date, and it very well could be.

It's amazing how wrong you are about some things. Dishonored's "Definitive" edition has all the DLC. As does the Definitive edition of Tomb Raider. Literally took me two minutes to find that out. True, they are also updated HD rereleases, but that's to take advantage of new console generations that lack backwards compatability. You might want to actually examine the content of these various editions and rereleases before going "It's not the same since it doesn't say GotY!"

As for GTA V, if Rockstar plans on supporting the game for a while, it makes sense not to release a complete/GotY edition. As I said before, such things are usually released at the end of a game's lifespan, when it's no longer getting supports and updates. GTA V is still being supported, therefore they aren't selling a complete edition, just like Skyrim's Legendary Edition didn't come out until patch 1.9 was out and Bethesda officially ended their support of the game.

How's that undermining my point? I don't give a damn about how crappy the games are, it's about the large companies still using "Ultimate" editions to have others buy into it by waiting, as a way to gather more profit. I don't get how that undermines the point.

what a narrow point of view you have on the franchise part, consideirng you didn't factor in the before-hand relationship that allowed said company to have a huge stockpile of income to keep them afloat while allowing them to bully the gaming market for their own goals, along with the still loyal-fanbase that keeps the company afloat because of their past releases has created said fanbase.

This is just my personal opinion, but the only games that Bethesda publishers with quality DLC are BGS games. This is about respective developers and not publishers. DICE decides to do a premium edition and BioWare decides to do separate DLCs without a season pass, not EA.

While that may be the case for you, I believe most people will buy a season pass if they believe the content will be worth their money, not whether the publisher is "good" or "bad." If that were the case, none of these publishers would ever make money because EA, Ubisoft, and Activision all have bad reputations in the gaming community.

Bethesda Softworks isn't much better either. They've been constantly in the news over the years creating frivolous lawsuits against Interplay over the use of "Fallout" in an MMO as well as the John Carmack scandal suing Oculus Rift because Carmack was an employee of Oculus and Zenimax simultaneously.

Regardless, BGS is known to make quality DLC, thus people will probably buy the season pass.

It's amazing how clueless you are about the difference between a GotY edition and a Definitive/Remastered edition. They aren't the same thing... One includes the base game and all the DLC. The other is an HD upgrade and can include all the DLC. Those are two separate entities. Both companies could have easily done a GotY edition and just re-released on new consoles. They didn't because GotY is a dying practice and has been replaced by other means.

Rockstar is only supporting Grand Theft Auto Online, which is a part of GTA V. They have made no indication whatsoever they are going to release any DLC for GTA V and they have not. The online portion is like an MMO and they constantly add to their cash shop. That's how Rockstar is able to make money long after the game has already been released. They plan on supporting GTA Online for at least five years and then their next big title will likely be out by then.

Call of Duty is a perfect example of a bad relationship between a publisher and consumers, yet it still makes a killing. That's why it contradicts the point you are making, because it doesn't matter how the business treats its fans as long as the product "delivers."

As long as the audience perceives the game as "good," it doesn't matter how the business treats the audience. People will buy it regardless and that's the point. Whatever perception people have of BGS or Zenimax, they are still a corporation and engage in the same tactics every other publisher does in the industry. They aren't different.

CDPR would be the only exception because they are independent and aren't beholden to a publisher. They can get away with making games the way they want, releasing lots of free dlc, and making their games DRM free because GOG funds their endeavors. BGS is just a subsidiary of Zenimax Inc, which is only interested in short term profit returns.

Not to mention, while I love Todd Howard, he over-embellishes his games all the time. I wouldn't say he outright lies, but certainly he makes them out to be more than they are similar to Peter Molyneux. Yet, his way of selling his games has in no way affected the success of TES and Fallout. Again, people will buy a game if they think its good regardless of who owns it.

I'm confused. If GTA V doesn't have DLC, why did you include it in the conversation? What could its GotY edition possibly add?

Could you link some examples of "Definitive" editions that don't include all the DLC? It makes sense that these releases on new consoles have increased graphics, otherwise it's not much of an incentive to upgrade your game (or console) to the new one. Also, if Definitive editions by definition have to improve the graphics, why should we mourn the end of GotY editions, when every Definitive edition I've found not only does everything a GotY edition does, but improves the graphics as well?

It seems to me that GotY editions aren't dying out, but simply being rebranded. "GotY" edition never meant a damn thing anyway, since pretty much every blogger, magazine, or tv show about gaming has its own Game of the Year awards. It's not like saying "Academy Award Winner." Definitive/Complete/Other cool sounding word editions seem to be the same thing under a different name. It also allows great games that for whatever reason didn't receive recognition to release a cheaper version with all its DLC as well. Technically, Skyrim didn't have a GotY edition. It had a Legendary Edition.

The problem with that, is that GTA V hasnt actually had any dlc that you've had to pay for so far. its all been freebies. except for the cardshark stuff, and people buying those are just buying a micro transaction pretty much.

I can't knock skeptics who invest in actual fact rather than hopes and expectations on something that doesn't even exist. There's nothing wrong or archaic with GOTY editions. After Skyrims glitch infested launch, I can see why some skeptics may be hesitant to invest $90 in pure hype. Which is exactly what Fallout 4 is at this point with all the secret footage that has yet to be revealed. At least most bugs are ironed out by the time GOTY releases.

Did some digging. Can't find a single thing advertising a "Definitive Edition" of GTA V. There's the PS4 and Xbox One version of the game, but that's not being marketed as a "Definitive Edition," the way your use of quotes suggests.

There has been DLC for the online portion of GTA V (GTA Online), just not the single player. Rockstar hasn't announced any plans for the single player being expanded so far, but the point is they have other means of making money without doing a GotY edition.

Definitive editions are only happening because of the transition to a new console cycle. They will likely come to an end now as all future titles are new console only. The original point is definitive editions and GotY editions are not the same, and they aren't. One is just re-releasing the game with all content and the other is improving the game with all previous content.

Gears of War: Ultimate Edition and Fable Anniversary are examples of editions that aren't GotY editions. They are visual remasteries of older games and not just definitive because they weren't released recently. Fable Anniversary even included the Fable 2 combat instead of its original, archaic form. There are various iteratoins and what the actual edition is called can me quite a few things.

As I said, Rockstar has a cash shop where they can generate money via GTA Online. They don't need to do a GotY edition as they can make much more money of microtransactions via their pseudo MMO.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to know more about a game you are buying. I do think the concept of a GotY edition is largely dead in this industry. BGS games will be buggy regardless of whether a GotY editionw as done or not. It's the nature of how complex their games are and how easy it is to break systems based on unforseen variables coming into play. For the most part there are never any game-breaking bugs. The point of the thread is I'm just not expecting a GotY edition at this point with the addition of a season pass coming into play. It's more profitable and BGS doesn't have to drop the price of the season pass over time.

The reason I used the quotes is because Rockstar never called it a definitive edition, yet that's exactly what it is. They re-released the game on new gen consoles with better visuals and some added features (first person mode, for example). The Last of Us, Tomb Raider, Dishonored, and Sleeping Dogs did the exact same thing and labeled themselves as definitive editions. Saint's Row 4 called their definitive edition the "Re-Elected Edition." Just because Rockstar doesn't explicitly state what GTA V on new gen consoles is doesn't mean it's not the "definitive edition."

But GTA V's support hasn't ended yet. You've said as much yourself. That's when a GotY edition comes out, after the game has been completed and no new content will be made. Do you have examples that shirk that pattern? If not, then why are you acting like the fact that a game that is still getting supported with new DLC not having a GotY edition when that happens after a game is no longer getting DLC is proof that GotY editions are dying across the industry?

Okay... So do you actually have any examples of definitive/GotY/etc editions that don't include all the DLC? You can talk about Definitive Editions being phased out, but it's idle speculation at this point, and even if it does happen, it doesn't necessarily mean that other rereleases with the same purpose won't be made under different names.

As to your point about Fable and Gears of War... I'm not sure what the point you're making is. I've already said that this is just rebranding GotY editions into something new, or allowing games that didn't become GotY winners to rerelease themselves with a special sounding name. I don't know if you're trying to rebut that idea or simply parroting.

The online component is still being supported. There is no indication the single player game, "GTA V," will receive any updates or DLC. Again, GTA V on new consoles and PC was essentially a definitive edition, allowing Rockstar to make money on the same game with better visuals and new features at full price a year and so later.

The point of this thread is to show season passes have pushed GotY editions out the door. With the exception of a HD remastery which isn't the same, we aren't seeing GotY editions anymore. What we are seeing from most AAA games are season passes.

Whether a Definitive Edition includes all of the DLC or not is irrelevant. The point is it's still not a GotY edition because the visuals and sometimes game play mechanics are being improved. HD Remasteries are still going to happen with older titles. Definitive editions are happening with transitionary titles that came late at the end of the console cycle.

The point is Definitive Edition =/= GotY. That is all you need to take away, which should be rather straightforward. Again, this all goes back to the fact that season passes are the norm. With BGS going with a season pass approach, I will not be surprised if a GotY edition does not happen. There's no reason to have one when a season pass will always be available. If anything, the base game will be discounted somewhat and the season pass price will remain the same still allowing BGS to make more money.

So you put a phrase in quotations not to signify that you're quoting something, which is the reason quotation marks exist, but to indicate it's something nobody but you is representing it as?

Makes perfect sense.

As for it being the exact same thing: All the "Definitive Editions," that is to say, the games that are actually being marketed as "Definitive Editions" and not just having that quotation randomly slapped onto it as if it was an actual quote in wanton violation of what quotation marks are supposed to convey, that you listed included all the DLC for the game. Therefore, "the exact same" it is not. Furthermore, The Last of Us doesn't have a "Definitive Edition." It is "The Last of Us Remastered." And guess what? It also included all the DLC. So again, not the "exact same thing" as the release of GTA V on PS4 and Xbox One.

GTA V on the newer consoles isn't labeled as any sort of "edition" at all. It's just GTA V on the new consoles. Nothing more, nothing less.

If GTAV didn't have any add-on content for the single-player experience, then I don't see how it factors into season passes or definitive editions in the first place. I just don't see the Season Pass replacing a GotY/Definitive/Legendary/Ultimate Edition, and it doesn't seem like it's going out of style for publishers to re-release games like that, regardless of season passes.

Quotation marks have multiple meanings. I can't believe I'm giving an English lesson. They don't just suggest you are taking a statement from someone else, but can be used to emphasize certain words to provide a certain type of context. By placing definitive edition in quotes was to suggest that's more or less what GTA V was, even though Rockstar never explicitly called it that.

The Last of Us is a definitive edition. GTA V is a definitive edition. They both have all the aspects that a "definitive edition" would have, specifically the improved visuals. This is ultimately irrelevant as this discussion is about how BGS will not need a GotY edition as a season pass will provide them more money and maintain the value of their work for longer.

GotY editions are already extinct. That's what you aren't getting. A definitive edition is just a re-release of a game on new gen consoles with better visuals and includes the dlc. An ultimate edition, such as Gears of War, is an HD remake. Skyrim's "Legendary Edition" was just a GotY addition in fact. The point is very few are doing GotY editions (base game + dlc re-released for sale).

Season passes are mainly aimed at the Pip Boy Editions owners and those who have had Fallout 4 pre ordered since it's first trailer. End of the day, Bethesda is a business and profit gain is the number one priority. Think about it. $120 for the PBE, $30 for a season pass, another $26 for the game guide? Bethesda would be insane not to capitalize off the hype and strike while the iron's hot. Fall back and let the hype sell itself.

Once the hype dissipates after the last DLC is released and Bethesda has moved on, why not release a GOTY edition? Season pass holders will have moved on to modding by then, while all of the 'I've never played a Fallout game before' gamers will jump all over a GOTY edition. Bet you bottom dollar we will see a Fallout 4 GOTY edition by at least summer of 2017.

Copies sold still means something.
They pay next to nothing to print out new copies, or have digital downloads of GotY editions. It isn't costing really anything to cast a last net and sell copies.

Again, this takes place well after all of the base game and season pass sales start drying up. That target audience is in the past and provide no new monies.. Straggler dollars still provide revenue, and copies sold still look great on paper. it certainly isn't about making big money, it's about a little extra frosting- and it takes only a small amount of effort.

I like how you go from "extinct" to "very few," as if they were the same thing. Start with a strong absolute, then backpedal like hell.

Anywho, you're splitting hairs, trying to act as though the definitive editions wouldn't just be GotY editions if we weren't transitioning between two generations of consoles, something I doubt. And you're also not actually proving that game of the year editions/complete editions/whatever other name you want to throw on them are becoming less prominent because of season passes, the thing you claim is the point of this thread. Correlation doesn't imply causation, especially considering games like Bioshock Infinite dabbled in both a season pass and a complete edition.

Also, "Ultimate edition" doesn't mean "HD Remake." Say hello to http://www.amazon.com/Fallout-New-Vegas-Ultimate-Edition-PC/dp/B0065NP39E. Not an HD remake, but the equivalent of a GotY edition, a rerelease of the game with all the DLC. Then there's http://www.amazon.com/FIFA-15-Ultimate-Xbox-360/dp/B00KQXKUGK/ref=sr_1_12?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1441871597&sr=1-12&keywords=ultimate+edition, which isn't either. You keep insisting on drawing lines of separation between these various names as if they are ironclad rules, but more often than not, you don't properly define them, and when you try, such as right now or when you implied that the "Definitive Edition" of Tomb Raider and other games didn't come with all their DLC:

you were demonstrably wrong. Glad to see you're not acting like that's the case anymore.

My point is that these titles don't have set definitions that are agreed upon by everyone in the industry. They get slapped onto the game based on whatever the marketing teams decide will help push the most copies.

Season Passes
- Publisher: Way to make money upfront, can help pay for the cost of producing the content.
- User: Way to get content as soon as it comes out at slightly discounted price.

GotY editions
- Publisher: All DLC is finished (game is done). Provides a way to sell the product one last time and get what they can out of it. (This isn't a bad thing).
- User: Gives someone who might not have tried the game a way to experience the "final" product for a lot less. For example: They see that this amazing Fallout 4 game is coming out, and decide to see what it's all about by buying Fallout 3 GOTY edition.

Simply DLC
- Publisher: Standard way to sell product (no real advantage/disadvantage)
- User: Allows us to pick and choose what content we want to add, AFTER being able to read about what it will add. And for people like me, the above plus ability to wait for steam sales..


So there are (mostly) advantages/disadvantages to all the methods for both publisher and user. Different methods will appeal to different people for different reasons. It's not a matter of them being able to do one or the other, they can and should do all methods.

The problem with this explanation is the assumption that the season pass will just disappear. A GotY edition would completely contradict the point of having a season pass a year or so after release. Season passes don't just go away. What is more likely going to happen is the base game will drop in price, but the season pass price will remain the same. How many publishers do you know do GotY editions and season passes? I can't even name one. If there are a few out there that do so, it's not very many. It cuts into their own profits.

This might make sense for a franchise not yet established, but Fallout is far from that. It still costs them money to re-release the game in a GotY form. Again, if there wer any stragglers that this point who still didn't buy the game, the base game will likely be discounted but the season pass will still be at full price. A GotY edition would contradict having a season pass.

You know someone is losing an argument when they are focusing on attacking words rather than the substance of the argument itself. Lets continue.

How many Definitive Edition games also had season passes? How many games with season passes also had definitive editions? This is a question you should ask yourself. There are far more games doing season passes than definitive editions, something I've already explained to you is a temporary measure due to the release of new gen hardware. This isn't a new version of a GotY edition, it's a way of maximizing profits because some folks on new gen may not have bought that game so late on the last gen cycle. It's that simple really.

Again, you are missing the point that there are distinctions between editions. Yes, sometimes the name doesn't suggest a particular meaning. Fallout NV was a GotY edition. Gears of War, on the other hand, was not. It's what the edition provides that's the point and not the name. Again, GTA V released on new gen was a definitive edition. Heck, Rockstar specifically called the PC version, which was the last one released, the definitive edition of GTA V (they just didn't label it that).

You really are confused. Definitive Edition =/= GotY edition. You still think it does when they are not the same thing. Are you really this dense?

Your point is completely irrelevant to the purpose of the thread. A Definitive Edition =/= GotY edition. Games that have season passes generally don't have GotY editions. Again, why would any rational company make next to no money on a GotY edition when they can just discount the base game and sell the season pass at full price years later? This is what other publishers do. Look at Ubisoft and EA. How often are they doing GotY editions?

Again, the point of the thread is not many publishers do season passes and GotY editions. What is more likely to happen is BGS is going to do a bundle for Fallout 4 + Season Pass. This is something Ubisoft, CDPR, and WB have done with their most recent games. As someone mistakenly linked earlier from Steam thinking it was a GotY edition, the Gold Edition of AC4 is still available and the season pass is still available at its original release price. The game has been slightly discounted in a sense the Gold Edition has taken the place of a GotY edition. Whenever BGS starts selling the season pass before launch and if they offer a bundle with the base game, the writing is on the wall folks.

I'm always iffy on buying Season Passes on things that aren't episodic (Tell Tale games, for example), before I get a feel for how many DLC I'm dropping my money for.

Bioshock Infinite had a season pass for all of three DLC's. Two being a two-parter mini adventure, the other one being a challenge map.

I chalk it up to consumerist paranoia.

Then again, this is Bethesda we're talking about so worries may be unfounded as they have yet to disappoint me traumatically in terms of DLC.

Like, I see the words Season Pass when the game is fresh, and I become skeptical. Like, alright, am I willing to put down the cash on pure faith that this pass will be honored and delivered upon to the worth of $20?