Irrational Games told you before hand what the DLC was going to be. We don't know anything about the DLC for Fallout 4.

I was incredibly disappointed with the DLC in Fallout 3. I absolutely loathed it and thought it was a waste of money. Morrowind was by far the best with Oblivion right behind it and then Skyrim in third place. I'd prefer massive expansions, but it's unlikely to happen. I just don't want to pay $30 for what could be another around of Fallout 3 DLC which was minature DLC that I largely didn't care about.

Again, things would be far better if BGS gave us an idea of what they had planned rather than telling us nothing. With TW3, we were told upfront that $25 was going to add two expansions adding 30-40 hours of content to the game. Unless BGS is going back to their old style expansions, which is doubtful, I'm not expecting that amount of content for $30, as I didn't consider Skyrim's DLC to be $40 hours of content.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. GOTY edition will still be out (shouldn't a game have won GOTY in order for there to be a GOTY edition?), but that's for those customers who get on board late and just want to buy the whole package as one. Season Pass is for the early bird and likely won't be available forever. One does not exclude the other.

Also, I don't think you can measure value vs. game hours. The DLC will surely contain a lot of material that is also incorporated into the base game, like weapons, armor, etc. Those things will have value even if you aren't playing the specific DLC. You really are just splitting hairs and grasping at straws, mate.

What I really want to know is if my Season Pass will give me free access to downloadable mods when they start charging for those...

Borderlands 2 has a season pass and a GOTY edition. Both are available on Steam. One doesn't negate the other, they serve different customers. The season pass is for the people who already bought the base game and want to get the DLC all in one go. The GOTY edition (or definitive edition, complete edition, or whatever they choose to call it) is for the people who never bought the game at all and just want to get everything at once. Sure, they could buy the game plus the pass, but it's easier to get it all together.

Think of it this way, if they have to buy the DLC or season pass separately, they might not buy it at all. Why not bundle everything up and make it nice and easy for them to buy the whole shebang?

And the notion that an eventual GOTY version will cut into the early profits is absurd. Very few people who are excited about a game will wait a year or more just to save a few bucks by getting the bundled version. Those who want it now will pay the release price (and will probably buy the DLC, pass or not). The fence-sitters might be enticed later on with an all-in-one version, or they might but the game alone when it goes on sale. The season pass won't appeal to them unless they play the base game and fall in love with it, but if you can give them the whole package at once, they might just go for it.

I don't want to wait for all the DLC to be offered in one package with the base game, so I will be ordering the Season Pass to be sure I get all the DLC when it is released, and it will save me a few bucks in the process. By the time a GOTY edition were to come out, I will have so many hours into the game world I may not even notice they released one.

My reason for liking the GoTY edition is that I'm one of the few left in the world with a really crappy internet connection and no option to get a better one. The pass, I assume, will be for digital versions of the DLCs which would take me days and days to download. I could buy the GoTY edition and download it from the disc then merely go to Steam to authenticate it. This is huge for those who live in internet poor areas.

Considering this is at least partially an argument about the words that are being slapped onto boxes, I think the misuse of language is a big part of the argument.

Again, you have failed to prove that if we weren't in a period of transition between consoles the games that are being sold as "Definitive Editions" would not instead be Game of the Year or some other edition. Being that one of the few things that actually separate them from standard game of the year editions is the fact that they are on a newer console than the game originally came out, and having them available on such a console helps give value to the newer ones, which still don't have an amazingly robust selection of games, I'm convinced that, these would have been simple GotY editions had they come out in periods where there was no transition to new consoles.

When this period of transition ends, it is my belief that these Definitive Editions will go away. But in there place, equivalents to the GotY editions will keep cropping up. Definitive editions have phased out GotY editions (not really, but let's pretend) as a means to repackage these games on newer consoles, which have a greater longevity compared to their predecessors. The purpose of a GotY edition is to get people who haven't bought the game yet to buy it, the cheaper price and all the DLC helping the enticing. The only thing that seems to separate a Definitive Edition from a GotY edition is that the former is moved onto the newer consoles and has updated visuals. Their target audience is pretty much the same: people who didn't buy the game when it first came out, but might be willing to do so now that it's cheaper and has all the DLC.

There is no point in a Definitive Edition coming with a season pass, because every single Definitive Edition I've found actually labeled as such has all the DLC.

Sleeping Dogs had a Season Pass and a Definitive Edition. As did Dishonored. As did Darksiders 2.

Shadow of Mordor had a season pass and recently had a Game of the Year Edition. BIoshock Infinite did both as well, although they called it the Complete Edition.

As for Rockstar calling the PC version of GTAV the definitive edition, could you provide a source? I did some digging, and I find the word definitive applied to it by various articles, but I can't seem to find a statement from Rockstar that actually uses the language.

It stands to reason that there are more games with season passes than goty editions. The season passes are launched alongside the new game. Goty editions come out long after the game has been a success and won acclaim. That doesn't happen to every game out there. Aliens Colonial Marine has a season pass and it was absolute garbage, so obviously it wasn't going to get a goty edition. Video games get sent out into the world with a season pass tagging along. Some come back with awards and stacks of cash, and get sent out again as a goty edition to see if they can find more money. Other games and their season passes just die, and don't get a chance to get sent out again.

As for Ubisoft and EA, as I pointed out earlier, their business models seem to mostly be shelling out yearly installments of their franchises. They don't put any time into a goty edition because it'd interfere with them pushing the new version of Assassin's Creed or Madden and so on.

Surely a Bethesda game is reason enough to pack up and move to another state. Where are your priorities?

Many companies do a season pass & a goty edition. Ea is the only one I don't think does, so I doubt it will change. besides the Dlc's won't be on Psn, Xbox live or whatever forever so a goty edition works for those that will buy the game much later down the line.

I too have poor internet, and I am dreading how long it will take after popping the game in my Xbox One before I can actually play the game. I have thought about buying on the MS store to download ahead of time, and then be ready to play at midnight, but so far that has not been an option.

You don't have to win a GotY award to make a "GotY edition." It's purely marketing to try and sell a game that was already previously released. It's meaningless. Not to mention any gaming site can give out a "GotY award." Also, season passes will always be available indefinitely. This is why you, and many others on here, are wrong and aren't understanding what a season pass is. This isn't just a pre-order feature. It's something that will be available permanently.

On the contrary, I can measure value vs. game hours because BGS has. They have touted their game is over 400 hours of content. Obviously, the number of hours to them equals value of the game. It only makes sense their DLC is in line with the philosophy of the base game.

Again, it's common practice for a base game and a season pass to be bundled these days. In other words, there is already a "GotY edition." TW3 has done it. BAK has done it. Heck, even Dragonball Xenoverse did it. Most games that offer a season pass are also offering a "premium edition" with the base game and season pass included. Ubisoft has been doing it for years.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/08/hands-on-with-gta-5-on-pc-at-4k

Search "rockstar calling gta v on pc the definitive edition." There are plenty of sources showing Rockstar describing the PC version as such.

Again, with most publishers offering the base game and a season pass in a bundle at release, that is essentially what a GotY edition would be. BAK and TW3 will likely win a GotY award from someone, but neither needs a GotY edition because they already have the base game + season pass bundle available for order. They will eventually be discounted and be a glorified "GotY edition." Most of the games you are mentioning to my knowledge didn't even bundle the base game with the season pass, so having a GotY edition makes slightly more sense.

Ubisoft? Acitivision? You can say something, but that doesn't make it true. Unless you provide a list of major companies that do both, it's kind of a ridiculous argument to make. Also, season passes don't disappear. I will be surprised if BGS doesn't do a bundle of the base game and season pass before launch, which would essentially be a GotY edition.

Also a player retention tool. Studies show that as time passes from the release of a game, the purchase of DLC drops off. This is due to people either not playing the game anymore (and not going back to it when a new DLC comes out), or due to them selling their copy off as used.

Sell them a Season Pass for a discount, and you end up 1. selling more DLC overall, and 2. keeping players playing your game (since they know that they already own New DLC 4 so why not boot the game up again and give it a go).

Given how long it was until DLC came out for Skyrim (longer overall timeline than some other companies have), I'd guess that player retention is a possible problem for them. So Beth trying the Season Pass approach for FO4 doesn't seem all that surprising.

(and there are plenty of games out there that have had passes, and then gone on to sell ultimate/goty/legendary//etc editions)

I can't see why they wouldn't. Season passes are made because they make sense financially. Most people don't buy all the dlc because they've all moved on to other games, with the "deal" they are still garanuteed to make 75% of the sales when the customer might only have bought half the dlc. Plus Alot of people probably go "but i won't buy dlc in bulk! i don't know what it entails and i don't want to be screwed!" Some of those people will still buy the all dlc at full price thus Bethesda still makes money.

The goty is released becuse they have already turned a massive profit and want to resell the game for more, granted if you waited this long to buy it you are getting a great deal, but your still buying the dlc. Some people wouldn't buy the dlc unless its at a good price so the goty is the only way to market to them. Plus in parts of america (i know from personal experience) you have a capped internet (10gb) and couldn't download the dlc, the complete edition is a way to sell the dlc to these people.

It makes sense to release a goty, (or complete) edition of the game, just as it makes sense to sell a season pass.

Yes the elusive "plenty of games out there that have had passes, and then gone on to sell ultimate/goty/legendary

I named all the major publishers and they rely on season passes and don't do GotY editions. Naming off an example of a random developer doing it is hardly an industry standard. The point is GotY is a thing of the past and season passes are the norm. No, an ultimate edition is not necessarily a game of the year edition as it depends on what the actual game is offering.

Yes, season passes make games more profitable and proving more longevity to games. No, a GotY edition would not be necessary if there is already a base game + season pass bundle, which is pretty standard these days. Thus, you don't see very many games that offer a bundle and do a GotY edition because it doesn't make sense.

Again, and I'll say this one more time. Most AAA games today offer a base game + season pass bundle. Look at TW3 and BAK as recent examples. I will be shocked if either has a GotY edition. The last Batman game to have a GotY edition was Arkham City and it did not have a season pass. You do not need a GotY edition when the base game and all of the DLC are already available. The season pass will not disappear, thus having a GotY edition doesn't make sense. I understand folks that live out in the boonies or rural America have issues with internet, but they are the minority and not the majority. Businesses are about money and they are going to appeal to the largest common denominator where they can generate the highest sales. Again, there just aren't many companies doing GotY editions anymore.

That may all very well be true, and good points anyway. However, it doesn't change the fact that the season pass is a phenomenal deal. They're not charging you $90 for a completely unknown product. They're asking $60 for a product that you have a pretty good idea about at this point, and you don't have to pre-purchase it to get it at $60, you can wait till the reviews come in and the gameplay videos are up, and then shell out the $60 (but you already know at this point that you'll be buying, so why pretend otherwise?).

They are also not charging you $30 for unseen products. They are offering you a deal that's going to be worth at least $40 at the price of $30. We all know these DLC will be out, and again, you can wait till the reviews come in, but you will have to pay full price at that point probably (unless the season pass is still available, like you say, in which case, wtf are you [censored]ing about?)

If there are enough people out there who are willing to pay these prices, and BSG is making a profit, then they have gauged the market precisely. If there's a demand large enough that's willing to pay the price they set, then that's what the product is worth. As many others suggest, they could probably charge $70 or $80 and still sell the same amount. Then that would be what their product is worth.

When you go see a movie at the theater, you don't go see a movie you've already seen. You've probably only seen previews. Same thing when it comes to a show, a sports game or any other entertainment product. That's what entertainment is, a surprise, and you just have to hope it's a good one.

yeah, yeah, you're not listening homie. Bethesda has already made their money. They want to make more. As long as they make more sales (sales they wouldn't have had) with the goty they're going to keep doing it. Also i don't know about batman not having a goty. You have to look at the publishing company that owns bethesda game softworks. Did they stop making goty editions? Granted the last game i know they released was dishonered, and i know it got a goty edition. You working your self up over nothing

At least we have a sense of the base game. I think we should have a bit more, but I'm definitely buying Fallout 4 for the simple fact I enjoyed Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. I just don't like that the season pass is a completely unknown factor. Every publisher gives an idea of what the season pass will offer before they start charging. I'm hoping BGS will tell us instead of just saying "it's a $40 value for only $30." Skyrim DLC was their idea of "$40 of value" and I disagree with that sentiment.

Again, is the DLC going to be like Dawnguard and Dragonborn? Operation Anchorage and Broken Steel? Or Tribunal, Bloodmoon, or Shivering Isles? BGS has done a range of all different types of DLC and their earliest ones were their best. Their showing with Fallout 3 was horrendous in my opinion and Skyrim was decent with Serana saving Dawnguard from mediocrity and Dragonborn trying to appeal to those nostalgic for Morrowind.

I just want to know how much DLC we are getting and generally whether it's new quest lines or something cosmetic like hearthfire. That's rather reasonable before I shell out $30 instead of just investing in something I know nothing about. I'm not here to gamble money.

As far as the movie anology, I'd say that's a poor one. Especially for big franchises like Star Wars, I know many folks who have seen those films multiple times in theaters because they are that good and worth the money. Again, I don't mind paying for the season pass, I just want to have some idea of what it will include. Right now, we could get a bunch of hearthfire type DLCs that are "$40 worth" and BGS wouldn't technically be lying. I'm also fairly certain many would be upset with that.

Considering Arkham Origins wasn't nearly as well received as Arkham City (a 20 point drop in Metacritic scores), it's not surprising it didn't have a Game of the Year Edition. And I'm not really expecting Arkham Knight to either, considering how awful they bungled the launch of the game and a lot of people seeming to take issue with WB having the gaul to charge 40 bucks for a season pass. Sure, Arkham Knight's score is higher than Origin's, but it's still lower than either of the two games that did get Game of the Year.

Keep in mind that WB is the publisher of the Arkham games. You know what else they published? Shadow of Mordor. You know what Shadow of Mordor had when it first came out? A season pass. You know what it recently got? A Game of the Year edition.

A Game of the Year Edition does make sense, because of who it is intended to appeal to: People who didn't by your game at the height of its popularity. To entice those potential customers, the game is sold bundled with the dlc at a discount. What doesn't make sense is expecting that people who didn't buy your game at the height of its popularity will not only buy the game, but also all the DLC via a season pass, when they can get a game that isn't two years old for less than that.

I agree with Summer as well. Some people simply can't get season pass. Huge swaths of the US have poor or no internet.
They still have money to buy physical copies, though.

You aren't listening. They won't need to if there is already a premium edition that bundles the base game and season pass into one. Feel free to look up the Arkham games and you'll notice the first two had GotY editions but Origins never did and Knight is unlikely to have one due to the premium edition it offers.

Did RAGE have a GotY edition? Did Brink have a GotY edition? Did Wolfenstein: The New Order have a GotY edition? All of those games were published by Bethesda Softworks and none of them had such an edition. In other words, it's not up to the publisher to decide whether or not a certain game will do a GotY edition.

Did any of those get lots of Game of the Year awards thrown their way? I low Wolfenstein: The New Order got a lot of praise, but I don't think they were pulling down awards left and right. Ditto Rage. And Brink wasn't that well received as I recall.

As for the bolded part: WHAT? If the publisher doesn't get to decide if they'll publish a GotY edition, who does? A committee of owls?

Haven't played new order yet, though it may not be old enough to warrant goty treatment.
As for brink and rage... they seriously under performed, so it's really no surprise if there's no goty edition.

Well, if the season pass is still available by the time the DLC comes out, problem solved!

I think we should expect a bit of everything. One or two larger modules adding a lot of content and new territory, and maybe one or two smaller adding more cosmetic stuff and dog armor.

You keep saying that, but the fact is that plenty of GOTY editions still come out. I gave you the example of Borderlands 2 earlier, but here's another: Shadow of Mordor. The GOTY edition is exactly the same thing as the game-plus-pass bundle, but that doesn't stop them from calling it the GOTY edition now. (in fact, the season pass is now called the GOTY upgrade, so you can still buy it separately).

Maybe your experience with it is just buying retail versions for console? I can see that making "physical copy" GOTY editions might be a little less common. In the world of digital distribution, most games that have a bunch of DLC eventually come out with a bundled "GOTY" or "Complete" version. Often the original base game gets pulled from the market and you can only buy the bundled version. For older games, it's easier for the publishers and sellers to manage a single item rather than a whole slew of options. As you say, "Businesses are about money and they are going to appeal to the largest common denominator where they can generate the highest sales", and in the case of selling a game that's a few years old, a Complete or GOTY version is the way to do that.

Metacritic is not an indicator of whether or not something gets a "GotY edition." Metacritic is as meaningless as a GotY award is. The point is Arkham Origins has a season pass and City and Asylum did not. You can still buy Arkham Origins and the season pass this very moment. Arkham Knight is also probably the best game out of the franchise, regardless of the terrible launch on PC, it was still well received on consoles, where most gamers are. Again, there is little need for a GotY edition when there is already an Arkham Knight premium edition that offers the base game and the season pass DLC.

It's worth noting that games that generally receive GotY editions are brand new franchises. When was the last time Halo received a GotY edition? When was the last time Mass Effect received a GotY edition? The closest thing the latter had was the Mass Effect Trilogy edition, and it didn't even include the major DLC.

I'll use PC gaming as an example of why GotY editions are defunct (not to mention "definitive editions" are usually only available for consoles anyways). Events such as Steam sales, GOG sales, GMG vouchers, Humble Bundle, etc., make GotY editions pointless. If there isn't a premium edition that bundles the base game and season pass, one or the other or both will be heavily discounted in time.

If a person picks up Fallout 4 two years from now via a Steam sale and decides they love the game, why wouldn't they pay for the season pass in which there will be plenty of reviews of the content? If they don't want all of it, they can buy individually. It will still be cheaper than the $90 the premium edition would cost now. The only credible argument that has been made in favor of a GotY edition is for those who don't have quality internet, making all of the content more accessible for them.

I certainly understand that dilemma, but I think it's an exaggeration to say "huge swaths of the US have poor or no internet." If you are talking about land mass, sure, but not actual people. Most Americans live in urban or suburban areas. Very few live in rural areas. If you happen to live in an underpopulated state or in a area with a low density of human beings, you aren't likely to have quality internet service because it's not cost effective for big business (AT&T, Time Warner, Comcast, etc.). I understand why a GotY edition is absolutely crucial for this demographic, but it's incredibly small compared to most customers who have decent internet and aren't reliant on a physical copy.