Anyone else dislike how Hines always seems to be the fall guy for this stuff? He always seems to get the most blame even though I doubt this was even his decision...

Classic case of "Shoot the Messenger". It's the big wigs behind the curtain who make the business decisions. I don't really understand what the fuss about this is about. The season pass is for folks who know that they are going to end up buying every DLC that comes out. If you have doubts about the DLC, don't buy the season pass. Easy peasy.

*For the record, I will not be buying the season pass.

After getting screwed with the whole Season pass concept from other developers, I will not buy them. You are paying a price for unseen content. I find it easier to wait a year or so and then buy the GOTY version or similar with all the content on the bargain rack.

The only thing I wonder is this: If I am getting 400+ hours of content for $60, will I be getting 200 additional hours of content for $30 more bucks? Doubtful, but one can dream.

I don't care one way or another about it. Don't know why anyone would be mad, unless they make it so you can't play the game without the pass.

Comes with the Job, no?
I am sure it isn't fun to deal with, but dude makes the big bucks for a reason.

I can only surmise that many who are skeptical of dubious behavior have been burned by other studios in the past, and may not be familiar with how BGS typically does DCL.
For conversations sake, who here is skeptical, but is familiar with F3, NV, and their DLC?

Well, or there's the middle ground - see what each DLC is as it comes out, and buy it then. (Personally, I thought that the Skyrim DLC were worth it. Waiting a long time to get the collected edition.... meh, not worth it for a game that I'm really happy with. I'd save the "eh, wait for a sale" thing for a mediocre game. 1. If I like the game, why wait. 2. if I like the game, why screw the devs out of profit, just to be a cheapskate? But then, I'm not on the "zomg, games too expensive!" bandwagon. )

I don't see the problem. It's not like how 343 handled the Halo 4 pass, as they pulled the "We only mentioned the first three map packs" card when they announced #4. Everything is included, and Bethesda has been pretty consistent in the quality and price vs. content of their DLC since Fallout 3 (Never played any BGS games before that, so I feel unfit to comment on Oblivion or before)

I play the Bethesda games for three or four different characters all the way through. This is countless hours of fun. Then I need to take a break and play several other games. By the time I get back around to it, the games are much older and cheaper.

He's a mouthpiece for the decisions that are made, and naturally he's the only available conduit for people to channel their stress through. He gets enormous amounts of [censored] but he can throw punches back.

I honestly don't quite get the backlash. If you don't want to buy the Season Pass, then don't. There will surely be plenty of content in the base game, mods will add to the play value just as they did in past games, and you can still buy the DLC piecemeal if you want. What the hell is the problem?

Not really. Considering he's the one that told me that Skyrim on the PS3 had achieved a level of parity with the 360 and PC, despite that being demonstrably untrue, I'm not that sympathetic. Within reason obviously. Anyone who throws death threats at him is clearly going too far, but do I feel sorry for him that fans blast him when Bethesda's games don't work or when the company does a horrible job communicating with their fanbase? Not really.

in his defends, PS3 have the fault on fallout problem and Bethesda still try to fix it,

So in his defense, the PS3 had some questionable design decisions that made Bethesda games less than suited for it. Bethesda tried to get their games to run on it anyway, and the end result was a broken, unwieldy mess. And so, having failed to fix the problem, Pete Hines elected to lie to consumers and pretend as if the problem had been solved.

Not sure how that makes him seem any better.

For the sake of arguing with you over something we can't know for certain, but based on my experience from DLC's from tons of games I've played most DLC's that have added new quests/new lands have given about 8-20 hours of extra game play per DLC. So assuming there will be 2 DLC's with questlines there might be up to say 30 hours of extra gameplay. Then 1 dollar per hour is quite fair, don't you think?

As for additional content like "raider weapon/armour pack", Brotherhood of Steel armour/wepon pack" or something similiar, I can do without that stuff. I never liked the equipment packs in games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Witcher 2 & 3 and so on. I guess there was something similiar for Fallout 3/NV (I never played those)?.

Anyway, back to quest line.. I've played DLC questlines that I liked and quest lines that I didn't like. Buying a DLC that I didn't like is better than buying a whole game I didn't like. I still havn't beaten Borderlands for example. Or Grand Theft Auto V, which cost me $59 when I bought it. In my mind, more or less total loss since I just don't like the game.

What's your feeling about Kickstarter campaigns? Got a feeling they try to trick you for your precious dollars too?

Do you guys actually see Beth doing weapon or armor packs? They've never done that sort of thing before so I'm skeptical they would for F4. I suppose anything is possible though.

I doubt it, they got yelled at for horse armor, and havent done anything like that since.

I don't see them doing weapon or armor packs for the same reason.

good i am enjoying the fact that BGS is getting some critisism for this

the audacity asking for money for future DLC s for a game nobody has played yet and we know next to nothing about is just insulting

Yeah, they haven't done weapon/armor packs ever unless you count Horse Armor. Otherwise any new armor sets are packed in with story DLC, like Chitin/Bonemold/Stalhrim in Dragonborn, or like Hellfire Power Armor in Broken Steel. Considering that the majority of console mods are probably going to be weapon/armor sets, I think Bethesda's better off avoiding that path like they have been.

There was that one time in Morrowind they released Le Femm/Golden Armor (and Adamantium Armor as a standalone plugin), but those were released as free add-ons and kind of worthless anyway. Maybe Horse Armor would have been more popular if it was armor our characters could wear, but made out of horses?

F3 had 5 story line DLC, which offered new and unique weapons, armor, and other items.
NV was the same, but also had a lower priced http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gun_Runners%27_Arsenal, and a bunch of item packs as pre-order bonuses.
Though opinions may vary on which DLC were good, I think most can agree that at least 3 DLC from each of those games were worth the price.

I imagine the DLC might be a bit different this time around, with the addition of building settlements, but I see no reason to think they will change their formula too much.

They (the publisher) greenlighted the pre order bonus packs, and the GRA for NV.
I liked the GRA. But truthfully, with mods being made available, I'm not sure weapons and armor packs are really worth anything.

Meh, GRA and Courier's Stash were nothing but cheat items Well, at least you had to pay a lot for the GRA ones, which is unusual.

I only have them because mods require them.

I just used jsawyer.esp and Right to Bear Arms to take those cheat items and distribute them around the map. Worked for me, but GRA gear is still really imbalanced with the rest of the game. That's one thing I wish DLC would handle better, balance with the base game. I know we paid money and we want to rock out with some new goodies, but I don't want to cheese the game with them. And I hate getting saddled with DLC messages as soon as I start the game; Skyrim did a lot better about that.

I'm not so sure about that. Skyrim's way of handling DLC stories kind of destroyed the pacing in my opinion. "You must deal with the dragons! Oh, crap! Vampires are killing everything! You are the Dragonborn! Wait, now here's another Dragonborn and he wants to kill you!"

Instead of saddling you with DLC messages, Skyrim chose to saddle you with DLC questlines.

I don't care for it much, myself. I have it because it was free at some point.
The story DLC, that's the goods.

To all the people not interested in the season pass,

they have the option to buy DLC or not, individually, at the point of release or thereafter, with no gated content withheld.

I think the quoted post is confused over how companies sell things.

They are not 'asking for money', they are 'offering for sale' an unseen thing for a discount against individual DLC purchase over time.

They are not demanding money, it is consumers' choice, so to be insulted by it is a little bizarre.

Am I insulted by the way a host of companies 'ask for money' for products I may choose not to buy? No.

Is it audacious for a host of Kickstarter projects to ask for money, if they have a credible offering? No.

This is no more audacious or insulting than a leading Football club selling a Season Pass for games they have not yet played.

Or a gym membership for flab that has not yet been worked off.

Or a subscription to as yet unwritten magazines/newspapers.

(and the term 'Season Pass' implies a fan purchase for future content, just like with sports - so it describes the situation well)

For those who are not interested in the Season Pass offering, there is no penalty and nothing is withheld from them.

So why don't we put this silly grumbling to one side?

Enough foolishness