Well it's nice to have some sensible people around here who don't have silly dreams of riding bikes in the wasteland.

because every aspect of every possible little thing couldnt be included in game?

are we to assume people don't wipe thier asses in fallout?
I mean there are toilets, but i cant think of anyone referencing taking a dump, or wiping their ass. people in fallout dont poop? oh thats right, we can assume stuff like that, because its rational, unlike people passing down basic mechanical knowledge, which we have done for a few millenia. :whistling:


To me, no bikes in game means no bikes in game- not that i need to think of a reason why they arent in game to expain away the abcense.

Engine limitations, lack of materials.

Thats exactly like asking how come D.C is so small in game? Duh

But there's no evidence they did, and lots of evidence they had more important things to do.

I kinda feel like I'm repeating myself here.



Yet we know that mechanical knowledge is rare, and have evidence in game of that.

BTW "}{}{Easier than riding a bicycle. Or your mother! Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha!}" as a dialogue option would suggest that bikes exist, and whats more that you know how to ride one, and someone else must get that, for it to even be a joke.


motorcycles are also in game.

just becasue noone is riding one around, doesnt mean they arent somewhere out of sight.



i don't particularly like the idea of riding a bike around the wastes.
but sometimes its just ridiculous, asssuming insisting that because it isnt in game, that something that is completely rational can't possibly be in the universe..

But it doesn't. Language is full of archaic words and phrases that we use to mean one thing although the original meaning is lost... It just means the phrase has continued to imply something very easy.

I don't recall seeing a functional motorcycle in game.


Indeed, Absence of Evidence is not evidence of absence... However without evidence of existence the presumintion has to be on its absence, rather than its existence.

For example, I can't prove there is not a teapot positioned in orbit around the sun presicely at the half way mark between the Earth and Mars' orbit. However to insist that we all should act as if its there simply because noone here can prove it isn't is just plain silly.
The same principle applies here.

i will not allow you to say that a subtle bit of language can be passed down, but mechanical knolwedge cannot be..

is there a lesson book in game somewhere, or a class thats referenced that explains the concept of riding a bike as being easy? no?



motorcycles, working or not are in game.. pedals on trycicles are in game.

you claim that no one would use bikes because no one would know how to use them
motorcycles are an example- they are essentially the past showing the wastelanders how they work. bikes have tires on them just like cars.. things that have tires go places.
even a wasteolander can understand that, which is far more evidential theat they are there somewhere, than your excluding them has going for it...

see, there may not be playable in game bikes. but, all the tech is there. its logical to assume people would use a pulley, just like the Citadel uses a pulley for the door, just like little lamplight uses for the door.
or like phil the special encounter.....

you can keep your teapot metaphor, i didnt like it a few years ago, and dont like you mis-using it now.

I'm not saying mechanical knowledge can't be, in fact we know that is has, but it is extremely rare. There are less than a handful of qualified mechnaics in Fo2. There is one known working car. Mechnical knowledge takes a lot of skill, and in the society immediately after the bomb isn't partiularly a priority, neither is teaching it.



What was the original boycott?

Anyone?

I bet most people here don't know that it was a dispute between Mr Boycott and his tennants. Yet the term has continued well beyond the characters have gone.

Other nursery tales and rhymes we sing to our kids once had political meanings... But now we can't even agree on who "Quite Conrary Mary" is.

Yet people after the bomb would still use language the way they did before, the bomb, and their kids would use the words and phrases that their parents say - no book required.

Yet you refuse to believe that a common saying implying simplicity that required absolutely no study, and no practical skill couldn't be passed down without a working bicycle or book referencing bicyle riding as easy?

Again, I'm not saying these things don't exist... But its not up to me to prove that they aren't in usage, its up to you to prove they are. There is no supporting evidence to prove that they are in use, therefore the presumption has to be they aren't, until such time as evidence appears that they are.

You can not like my examples all you like - doesn't change a thing. Its not up to me to prove a negative, its up to you to prove a positive.

Yah but there is no evidece that any one takes a dump in Fallout, so does that mean we assume that no one uses the bathroom.
There is no evidence of someone making alchhol, does that mean we assume it time travels to teh future.
No one makes bullets, at least in the CW, does that mean we asssume no one is making bullets.
There are no farms, but there is food, does that mean we assume there is no places making food.

I could keep going, and going and going.




I see what your sayign and my brother uses that in arguemensts, the notion of teapots is a joke though because it is not true.

If you had used something

phil rode a bike.

i dont care if hes a special encounter.



and no, your tea kettle example is apples and oranges..
i get it as an example- i get the logic of it, it's not lost on me in the slightest,
it just doesnt fit in this instance, as there are plenty of references to the same mechanical systems that bikes use in the fallout universe.

wheesl? check
gears? check
Chain driven devices? check
Pedals? check
p[ulleys used to open doors? check
trycicles that do the same thing as bikes, but use a direct force, as opposed to a pulley system, which is used to do work in the fallout universe? check.

thats plently positive, right there, teapot. i never said the wasteland was teaming with bikes, only that they could figure them out.

also.....mechanical knowledge is extremely rare.. really?
yet somehow, each game, you have the ability to repair machinery thats far more complex than a simple pedal powered pully?




but ya, because the developers didnt feel like putting actual people riding bikes in game, or didnt want to make it a focus they cant exist?

no, let's use your way, it makes a lot more sense.

There is proof of that. Ever visit Modoc? Also, I'm repeating myself again, there's a world of difference between a regular bodily function (Which the evidence of human life itself proves), and a mechanical contraption that requires knowledge to ride and knowledge to maintain. your example is worthless

Plenty of evidence of Alcohol being brewed... Have you ever played a fallout game? I call Becky of the Den to the stand.

Again, plenty of evidence of that. I call Miles and Smitty of Adytum.

There are plenty of farms in fallout games. I add Adytum, Shady sands, and the NCR Sharecroppers at vegas to my witness list.

Please do, as you havent provided a single example proving your point in this post.


Prove its not true. You've asserted that Bicycles must exist in a functional form in Fallout's world based on a throwaway comment; I've show evidence suggesting this isn't the case, however you're critising me for continuing not to believe in their existence despite there being no evidence of their existence - I assert that as you dont believe in teapots in the earth's orbit, and you can't prove its not there, that you must be wrong and the teapot must be there.


Wow, you've managed to work that someone with a bit of sense can work out what a bike might have been used for. Now you need to get the skills to maintain it, repair/replace any broken parts and ride the thing. Good luck with that. You've still not offered positive proof that they're in use. Positive proof would be someone discussing using a bike (ie- saying they took a bike ride, not just repeating a common phrase) or seeing someone use a bike in a canon encounter. Can you provide either of these?


and how many people in each game show evidence of these skills?


IF you're not going to bother to actually read my posts completely, at least be honest and include "TLDR" in your posts - I repeat now for at least the third time I AGREE THAT IT DOES NOT PROVE THAT THEY DO NOT EXIST HOWEVER UNTIL THERE IS POSITIVE PROOF THAT THEY'RE IN USE THE PRESUMPTION MUST BE THAT THEY DO NOT.

but hey, reading the entire thing means you cant make a cheap quip at the end, doesn't it.

If you're going to argue lore, it helps if you've played all the games, not just Fallout 3.

1. I dunno wtf Modoc is.

2. Yes and I have never seen conclusive evidence.

3. In the Pitt and only the Pitt, I would not consider that plenty.

4. I can only think of one, please prove me wrong.

5. Yes, yes I have

6. NO i have not done thatr. I said the theory and knowledge and parts are there, and there are motorcycles lieing around. And with repair you can fix robots and guns which are much harder to create and fix than a simple bike.
a. You cannot prove the teapots exist, therefore tehy dont. Same logic as you adn its just as sound.

7. the parts are there the knowledge is there, cant be too hard. I dunno what you dont get about this.

8. I never said they were in use, I said it was possible they were in use and could be put to use, you dont need absolutely positive proof to believe something, though it can be wrong. And I dont know wtf TLDR means.

I'm not even going to bother to respond to the rest, as its unfair to attack an unarmed man. You're not in a position to argue lore if you do not even know what Modoc is. You've made ascertains that you're in no position to make as you havent played all of the canon fallout games.

If you want to argue lore, go play all the games, then come back and we'll listen. Until then, you're an unarmed man walking into a gunfight.

A small farming community, a native american tribe, a story about a man and an elephant, a county, a speedway, take your pick bud.

Maybe Im not makign myself clear, the parts, the know how, the ability, the need are all there fro bikes. So there is no reason they would not build them. And their is a bike in Van Bueren. Yes it was cancelled. SO maybe you should stop arguing about one town in Fallout 2 adn looka t teh facts. You truly are an unarmed man in a gunfight. ANd that has no relevance.

you want to talk abouit actually reading what someone writes?
let me say this again, then cause i am sure youll get a kick out of it
i never intended to prove they exist
go back and read where i jumped in on this thread in response to you saying the knowledge would be lost... where you said that the only reason we would knowwhat a bike was is because we were shown...
If you really want to go with your teapot metaphor, then turn it on YOUR assumption that because the bikes arent there, then it must be cause they lost the know how.
The bike dialogue reference could be taken either way.. but thats neither here nor there for what i am actually trying to talk about.

All i am saying is that people would be able to put a bike together, because they essentially already have them.
and the mechanical know how, based on examples of pulley systems that are in use in the games.
i never said that someone re-opened the Scwhinn factory and handed out merit badges for riding in boyscouts.
only that people could figure them out, as they have practical examples.

I don't have any idea what you're on about anymore. I'd say it had been fun, but you're arguing about something you don't know about, and when evidence is presented, you seem to have your ears closed.

Horse to water... Cant't make it drink.

Guys... This thread was intended to be a joke... :sadvaultboy:

Okay lets recap, you are in fact saying that because there are no bikes then the assumption is that they dont exist.

But they have the know how, the parts, the ability, the will, the reason and so on and so forth.

SO logically that means that bikes could exist, and that is all I am saying.

Just like you are sayign technically teapots orbiting the sun could exist because there is no proof they do or dont. Which is what Im saying about bikes, you can neither disprove their existence nor prove, so theirfore, I can draw any conclusion about them that I would like to draw.

NOTE: The part about Modoc was because you tried to pull a "Im so cool, I knwo all about the first games" moment, by mocking me by saying that I did not even know what Modoc was, so I then proceeded to school you by giving about 5 examples of things called Modoc. And saying I know nothing about this topic is insane because we are talking about the plausibility of bicycles in the Fallout Universe. And you are comparing that with gunfights and horses to water.

Wow heh this kinda got heated. Did anyone uhh notice when C C reminded us of the nukacola bike delievery guy if I am thinking of the same random encounter, also I seem to remember a whole crapload of humans working on some of them stationary work out bikes charging batteries (a poke at the Matrix movie) I think these were both Tactics randoms so they might not count . But I kinda thought there were stationary bikes in the workout room in the base where you can make a robobrain in FO-2 (soory folks its been a while I do remember you can get a cookie or too off the floor there heheh).

Nice one Fattoler, heheh to cause this much musing and anger

On the outer western edge of the D.C. interior is a large factory that used to manufacture cute little Red Racer Tricycles. Production stopped 200 years ago, and the place is remarkably intact, especially as the surrounding area is so dilapidated.

From Prima Games, Fallout 3 game of the year edition game guide, they made tricycles and the production facility is still there, i remember shooting the ones hanging from the ceiling, i think thats proof of the technology, but yes tyres and tubes would be basically way to difficult to get, having been a cyclist for over 20 years repaired tubes have a short life and no matter how much you cannibalise old tubes you will run out quickly, you can get solid rubber tyres that last longer but i wouldnt want to ride on that terrain unless you want to stand up and cycle.

If you had played the fallout games, you'd know there was only 1 thing called Modoc and how it relates to one specific claim you made. I can't actually see any post where you name 5 things called Modoc - only 1 where you claim you don't know what it is.

If you'd have played the game, you'd know that modoc contains a community toilet filled with human waste, and farms. Both things you have claimed do not exist in fallout's universe.


This is why you're an unarmed man in a lore argument. You simply don't have the knowledge.


This is pre-war though - there's no disupute such things exist before the war. There's no post war evidence of use which is the key contention.

Trikes are generally sized for 5-year olds and as such have very small wheels (and thus inner tubes and tyres). The pedals are directly connected to the front wheel, and do not require a chain or lubricant that needs to be maintained, derusted, etc.


Special/random encounters aren't canon - otherwise the Chosen one broke V13's water chip, the existence of the TARDIS, Godzilla, and Star Trek's federation - and this is just one game.

O.k. guys really, this was merely a joke thread to make fun of:

A, The random and ridiculous nature of some topics

B, The extent to which some Elitist fans will go to fill the plotholes in their http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI canon.

C, And by extension, the incredible speed to which people will suddenly cling on and defend an idea which unless it was suggested by someone else they never would have given a moments thought.

I mean, there are MANY plotholes in Fallout, like the Bloatflies, now I haven't done biology in a while but I do remember that insects have a extremely different respiratory system to mammals and other large creatures that basically works by 'absorbing' air into the bloodstream without the need to breath via some surface tissue; this only works for very small insects because of the surface area to volume ratio (wiki it). In short, bloatflies and radroaches would be unable to respire enough to survive. Do I care? NO. Did we care when the AER laser rifles appeared? NO. Would I care if bikes came out of the ether. Nope.

So can i have a nice red bicycle then, coloured streamers on the handbars.

Ditto,,,, lay of the buffout guys...

I aplogize if a comment like this has been posted as I was getting very tired of reading the same constant rebudle that, "it would cause it's common knowledge" and "no the knowledge was lost" so my rebudle is,

If you look at human evelution, it took millions of years to develop speech, far after did we develop the basic tool, example the flint spear, because in our evaloution, the flint spear was a neccesity to our survival that we needed to hunt animals, now take into consideration that, only very recantly, did we discover the mechanical advantge, velocity ratio, physics, and what todays life is based off of, even though it's all around you, we (you and others) do not notice it in the slightist. Now as our survival insticts took charge and dominated our life, for a period of time, eventually, our tools helped us develop a life where we dont really need necesitys as much as they are there. So then we developed luxury's. This is where our inivation comes in, and where I get to the point. After we developed houses, we developed a much easier way to light up the house. Light bulbs, though at the time it was a break through, it is much safer and effiecent to have electricity than fire/candles today. I am missing alot of things yes, but this came to mind first. Then as life became easier we made ways to get around faster, ways to contact people, and yes, ways to make everything we do more effiecent, and a great example comes to mind, that I am using currently, Internet, or high speed, wireless interconnection, instead of dial up, or mail. So when we learned about chains, pulleys, gears, mechanical effeicincy, we made bikes and cars as an easier way to get around. Now if everything was to be abondaned, or blown up, our primal instincts would dominate our lifes, and we would have no need for bikes, or transportation, we would want shelter, fire, food and water. Abondon the weak, and help the strong for our survival. Bikes would, all in all, be pointless, as we could use that for many things. Medication is needed, you only want faster ways to get around, because that dominates YOU, not the lives in the apocalypse. Think like them and you would understand. If you were starving and saw an apple tree, would you run to it and eat it, THEN develop a better way to get to it, example, paths and railway carts, or would you develop a way to get there faster and risk dying or being uable to move, then get something to eat. Look at it my way and it makes sense why you dont need bikes.