Bigger and Better, the NEW Features : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:46 am

Whetstones. They are new.

Very true, they appear in the E3 demo but... i'm not sure if we can "use" them, so i left them out.

Besides, there are plenty of other features in Skyrim that i haven't added, i just picked those i believed gave the game more depth.

:foodndrink:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:12 pm

There has been plenty of wild speculation and criticism regarding the supposed "dumbing-down" of the Elder Scrolls series.

If we compare this game to the latest Elder Scrolls game, Oblivion, it seems some features are being left out, yes, but we tend to forget how many new features are being either recovered from Morrowind or created from scratch.

Let's take a look at some of the best ones, specially those that add new layers of depth to the game:

Combat:

-Dual wield anything (except shields) (I can dual wield in oblivion, Big whoop?)
-Shield bashing and timing based blocking system (same as above)
-Dragon Shouts (Magic effects with a different way of acquiring them, I have that IN Oblivion too)
-Sprinting (Oblivion )
-Slower backwards running (oblivion)

Immersion:

-New Jobs/Tasks for NPC's and player (jobs they actually DO) (((like fable? as in probably useless? point made were you said town economy)))
-New relationship system with NPC's, including friendship and (not fully confirmed) romance. (((Nothing significant to say about that from me so I holw my piece)))
-Some quest givers can now be killed, and will be replaced by others, with different disposition. ((((Yep +1)))
-Town/City variable economy, alterable by the player's actions (((Todd stated it was a light touch, nothing flowing and dynamic or pivotal, keep your pants on))))
-Unique Settlements, with different architecture and culture. (((+1)))
-Tailor-build unique quests depending on your character, level and many other variables. (((sounds like level scaling's love child, sure no two games are the same, but my character is still getting metagamed for no discernable world wise reason)
-NPC Children(((alot of folks HATE children)))
-Carriage travel system (good for fast-travel haters) ((((+1))))
-Different bounties for each of the 9 holds (((I has in Oblivion)))
-Better conversation system. ((from what I saw, no no it wasn't, I can walk and the world doesnt freeze absolutely awesome tbh, but otherwise no)))

Customization

-Enhanced character creation system (((more options yeah, enhanced? I don't call picking premade parts enhanced, better? I guess))))
-Beards (!!)
-Tattoos
-Scars
-280 Perks (including ranks, number of unique perks unconfirmed) (((Perks that do +5's...again.....I've yet to see anything that changes how you play the game like Meltdown in FO3)))
-Smithing, creation of weapons and armor (((My opinion, Meh))))
-13 types of Ore ((ditto))
-Races made clearly different from each other((Morrowinds Crappy graphics did this just fine)))

Enviroment

-Different environments (tundra, fall forest, pine forest, canyon...) (((to be seen)))
-Fish, Birds, Mammoths and other non aggressive creatures populate the wilderness. (((+1)))
-Dynamic snow, weather, tree-branches movement... (((that I will wait for the game to release, there was supposed to be shadows on everything in Oblivion, so much for that)))
-Really unique dungeons. (((the only thing unique about Dragons is the story behind and around them, nothing more)))

Other features

-70 voice actors
-Better looking/animated NPC's
-More enemy variety.
-Non-scripted dragons ((no they are scripted....just allowed to pick which scripts they us))

and So...all of this which represents cool factorial and game play for what?

oh and you forgot new magic system, what I believe to be varied culture types from region to region, you also missed the largest mountain in Tamriel, as well as the first time Moutains are truely represented, Better dungeon designs, a new province, more lore, culturally and regionally correct foodstuffs and some otherthings.

Less weapons , just sticks and bows.
No spell creation.
Less Factions to join.
the World revolves around the player, again.
No Attributes or rather and improved Version of Attributes, H/M/S are not attributes they are status bars.
No Birthsigns, or rather an Improved version of Birthsigns, no Guardian stones are not -Birth-signs
Less armor slots

the list can continue

My point?

things are gained things are lost, but in the case for SKYRIM things Gained do not make up for things lost, no one is saying "F what we gained, that doesnt matter! look what we lost! its all gone! -rage" I've yet to see anyone complain about whats being added, in Skyrims case is that not a good thing? thats a no brainer so what is the point discussing it as a counter point to whats gone? what are you going to say "omg why did they add dragons!" ? no I didnt think so.

You can be blind, I won't fault you for that. but dont dare ask me to be blind with you.

You can feel fear for change, Its just human nature, but don't dare ask me to fear it as well.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:11 pm

Very true, they appear in the E3 demo but... i'm not sure if we can "use" them, so i left them out.

Besides, there are plenty of other features in Skyrim that i haven't added, i just picked those i believed gave the game more depth.

:foodndrink:

http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.strategyinformer.com/xbox360/elderscrollsvskyrim/564/preview.html
Blacksmiths grindstones can be used by the player to get a temporary boost to weapon damage.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:40 pm

How do you know there will be less weapons?

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:38 pm

I said things lost not what were losing, lol please anymore cuts to weapons and its all

bliviongate: from there

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:02 pm

Thanks for the positive post, OP. Really nice to see it brighten the mood of a lot of people, though I can feel the negativity is being pushed into this thread...

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:40 pm

hmmm so praise is automatically positive, and concern is automatically negetive mmk..

and Negetive is bad

and Positive is good

if you really think that way, you need to learn a few things in Psychology about reinforcement, oh and lighting.....

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:25 pm

hmmm so praise is automatically positive, and concern is automatically negetive mmk..

and Negetive is bad

and Positive is good

if you really think that way, you need to learn a few things in Psychology about reinforcement, oh and lighting.....

You should learn that negativity =/= concern.

Most negativity is just baseless whine, I wish all people would voice concern instead of being just downright cynical.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:28 pm

And were one person to them is concern

to you its baseless whine and once again negetivity = bad

mmk

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 pm

And were one person to them is concern

to you its baseless whine and once again negetivity = bad

mmk

Dude, are you for real? I didn;t say concern is negative, I said baseless whine is negative. And most of it isn't even a matter of opinion, it's a solid fact. For days I've seen people whine, and cry how they're not going to buy the game, because someone was the first to say that there would only be a body part armor, and a helmet, and everybody took it for a fact, with all the whine to follow, which today is proven to be false.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:40 pm

-snip-

Great thread, OP - Red Shirt Guy approves!

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:23 am

First of all, thanks for your opinion, OmegaX.
I will appreciate if, in the future, you could avoid quoting such a log OP, it makes reading the thread harder for other members.

and So...all of this which represents cool factorial and game play for what?

Cool gameplay is subjective, I find dual wielding and enhanced shield bashing to be somewhat better than the dice-rolling combat we loved in Morrowind, for example, but I believe we must try the game in order to avoid unnecessary speculation.

Less weapons , just sticks and bows.
No spell creation.
Less Factions to join.
the World revolves around the player, again.
No Attributes or rather and improved Version of Attributes, H/M/S are not attributes they are status bars.
No Birthsigns, or rather an Improved version of Birthsigns, no Guardian stones are not -Birth-signs
Less armor slots

the list can continue

I see your point, and must agree some of the things left out will be greatly missed, although "less factions" or "less armor slots", amongst others, are yet to be confirmed I believe.

As I said before, things such as the enhanced character creation, crafting system, or dragon shouts (to point out a few) DO add new depth to de game.

My point?

things are gained things are lost, but in the case for SKYRIM things Gained do not make up for things lost, no one is saying "F what we gained, that doesnt matter! look what we lost! its all gone! -rage" I've yet to see anyone complain about whats being added, in Skyrims case is that not a good thing? thats a no brainer so what is the point discussing it as a counter point to whats gone? what are you going to say "omg why did they add dragons!" ? no I didnt think so.

Well, we agree on the fact some content has been lost (some skills, some spells, classic attribute system...), other content is being changed (skills, leveling system, combat...), and some new content is added.

I respect your opinion OmegaX, but really cant say if "things gained do not make up for things lost" right now, I can guess and speculate all I want, but I cant know, and neither can you. If the new smithing system is horrible, for example, I will very much hate having lost that extra greaves slot, but if it works, I may never want to come back. I still remember when Ocarina of time (Zelda) was in development and I thought 3D graphics will ruin the strategic gameplay...

You can be blind, I won't fault you for that. but dont dare ask me to be blind with you.

Hey, I respect your opinion, and I'm most certainly not asking anyone to agree with me, at all.

Anyway, as I said before, the Elder Scrolls, just as any other game series, has either to evolve or die, and although some of US may not like some of the changes, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that supports the doomsday "dumbing-down" speculation.

Will the game be better/worst? let's wait and see for ourselves! A game of such depth and customization will certainly be loved by some, and hated by others.

Thanks for your opinion, really. :foodndrink:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:50 pm

Dude, are you for real? I didn;t say concern is negative, I said baseless whine is negative. And most of it isn't even a matter of opinion, it's a solid fact. For days I've seen people whine, and cry how they're not going to buy the game, because someone was the first to say that there would only be a body part armor, and a helmet, and everybody took it for a fact, with all the whine to follow, which today is proven to be false.

and I said.....where they hold concern for something, and they are vocal, to them its significant, and to you its baseless whine...even though its on the internet clear to see, coupled by a Dev who danced around the question about a miniscule feature, he wasnt asked about crafting, different armor types, perks effects or anything significant, he got a straight question are they seperate as in previous games, and he danced around it, how you do not expect people to come to a general conclusion I do not see, and this was brought up in Feburary, its nothing new, its only now being confirmed.

case and point, just because you don't see something a certain way, does not make claims from others with differing view points anyless accurate :shrug: all I was saying.

hey Ancient dont stare at my last 2 sentences two hard, thats why I gave two versions of them, so please do not make it as if Im stepping on optimists or calling them blind, the two sentences are general statements and are not ment to cater to any one group.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:33 pm

http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.strategyinformer.com/xbox360/elderscrollsvskyrim/564/preview.html
Blacksmiths grindstones can be used by the player to get a temporary boost to weapon damage.

Hey that's cool! Simple and logical... I'll add this to the thread. Thanks! :foodndrink:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:31 am

Thanks for that list Ancient Scrolls. I'm just going to have to read fewer and fewer threads because the complaining is getting to me. I'm so excited for Skyrim to come out and it's a really long time to be affected by the complaining. I really like how things will be different in Skyrim and I'm looking forward to giving everything a chance and learning how it all works. It looks bigger and better all the time, and we don't even know everything. My little Breton is going to travel the Skyrim world and see and do all the good things she can find to do...and fight, or run away from, every dragon she sees. I was just playing Oblivion again and saw something I've never seen before...the wild horses. So many hours (years) of playing and I didn't even know about them. That's the kind of game, world actually, that Bethesda makes and I'm just amazed...and eager. Nothing's going to deter me in the end. It's going to be fantastic.

:tes:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:04 pm

Less weapons , just sticks and bows.
No spell creation.
Less Factions to join.
the World revolves around the player, again.
No Attributes or rather and improved Version of Attributes, H/M/S are not attributes they are status bars.
No Birthsigns, or rather an Improved version of Birthsigns, no Guardian stones are not -Birth-signs
Less armor slots

If anything what we've seen in the demo points to more weapons, not less. The inclusion of "Imperial sword" and "woodcutter's axe" is good evidence of that, as is the confirmation that there will be 13 types of ore to use in crafting. There have already been four factions confirmed, as well, which is what Oblivion had, as well as insinuations of more factions on top of that. The world "revolving around the player" has always been the case in TES games, too. The level scaling everyone hates so much was in Daggerfall as well. Oblivion just screwed it up royally by making it global and applying it to equipment as well, and then they stupidly touted that as a feature. Health, Magicka, and Stamina have already been confirmed to affect things other than themselves; Stamina for instance determines your physical fitness and therefore your encumbrance. Oversimplifying it more than a bit, sure, but directly increasing Magicka replaces the Intelligence attribute entirely and it will probably boost your magical resistance, thus replacing Willpower as well. The Guardian stones are functionally identical to birthsigns in every way except that you choose them after beginning the game rather than at the start.

You're absolutely right about armor slots, though. It makes zero sense to merge cuirass with greaves on top of merging pauldrons into cuirass in the first place. It's not even like it's hard to implement, either. Just break up the armor sets you've made into three slots.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:16 pm

When I say less armor types and then Say sticks and bows, think what you primarily use sticks for, swining right? and Bows Bow and arrows, self explanitory

I should have said weapon types, sorry but in my opinion I consider, Spears, Bo-staffs, crossbows, throwing weapons, all variation of axes, maces and swords, several types of weapons shorter than a shortsword, all greater variety then just, axes/maces big version and normal version + 3 types of blades and Staffs.

In my opinion of course. (gotta put that there these days before you get railroaded)

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:38 am

Now to the dumbing down part:
Enchanting skill, in Morrowind it was the choice of the nerdy power gamer, to use well you has to study the nexus, the first days you has to test it yourself to find out how it work, more hardcoe than spellmaking.
Carriage travel: response to hardcoe role players who dismiss enchanting as powergaming.
More living towns, you can do all the mundane tasks the npc is doing as woodcutting and mining.
Ore you mine can be used in smithing an addition a crafting skill in addition to alchemy and enchanting. You can also cook food who might work as potions or have other effects.
Children: why add something you cannot kill.
Why add wildlife who is passive, even monsters (giants)

I have problems seeing any dumbing down, also had problem seeing it going from Morrowind to Oblivion with the exception of the quest compass, I just ALT-TAB to uesp then stuck in quests.
choosing to prioritize look over functionality Spell making and armor is not dumbing down.
Not having the interface on PC optimized for PC is just laziness, the other way is also true, Morrowind on xbox.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:07 pm

I can't deny that they've made some very good decisions. Some stuff which should have been in Oblivion, but good none the less. It's too bad it's not simply added on to the other things which they have cut, or new stuff which is questionable. I still really hate the idea of the rune-stone things. Seems like an outdated mechanic from Banjo Kazooie or some other kiddie game. What worries me is that that is indicative of the overall trend towards simplification and "accessibility."

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:31 pm

Like ^ :wub: :tes: :tes:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:45 pm

http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.strategyinformer.com/xbox360/elderscrollsvskyrim/564/preview.html
Blacksmiths grindstones can be used by the player to get a temporary boost to weapon damage.

Ty, has to remember to use a grindstone on my magic staff:) Zaria looks at the kid who is carrying the small portable grindstone.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:47 pm

waitumminut.. you can't make spells?

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:53 pm

-Beards (!!)

50 Beards!!!

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:44 pm

Very nice thread OP!!

So nice to finally see the benefits of the new game rather than hear (read...) the endless crying about how it is being "dumbed-down" for grade-school children.

Seeing a compiled list of the improvements makes me even more excited (as if that were possible) for this game to drop.

Well done OP, well done.

bliviongate:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 pm

Thanks for that list Ancient Scrolls. I'm just going to have to read fewer and fewer threads because the complaining is getting to me.

Definitely this. After the gameplay trailer came out I emerged from a long bout of inactivity to participate in all the fresh, new attribute debates. Then they got stale very, very fast and I disappeared again. The same thing is happening now that the E3 info has been digested, all the good ideas absorbed and the bad ones spat out in textual diarrhea. I think it's time to disappear again.

If only there was a reliable way to know when more info arrives without having to participate here. I got lucky, when I decided to check the forum on the first day of E3 (that was a nice surprise).