I think you folks all forgot why we fought Dagon in TES4.
Permanent summoning would be cool, but it better be backed up by some serously legendary artifact or ritual player may do only once.
Maybe a dragon shout that makes an exception through the barrier.

Nah, as far as im concerned we stopped that type of summoning in Oblivion XD

This.

Of course YES! How is it that in OB, a lowly [censored]-kicker conjurer can permanently bind daedra, but me, a master conjurer who can kill all other conjurers with a flick of the wrist, can't do it?

Thank you. I don't mind the "how to" comments, but this really was the main query of the thread. As to the continuous drain of magic . . . aside from being excessively punitive, I don't think that is how the summons in ES work, including the permanent ones. And if the summons only lasted so long as your continually drained magicka, it wouldn't really be a permenant summons. Note that you can kill all the conjourers in a lair, the permenant Daedra still remain there, unless they too are banished. Also there are shrines long abandoned by Mer and Men, where Daedra summoned and permantly bound to Nirn long ago, still lurk and lair.

I think the best way would be a complex ritual, something akin to what needed to be done for the creation of a SoulGem. Perhaps the ritual would require a scarifice, but you certainly shouldn't need to sacrifice daily. You have done them the favour of bringing them into Nirn (where they always seem to want to go), and have provided them an ample hunting ground. That should be boon enough.

I feel that, when one reaches the ranks of mastery in conjuration, the ability to bind Daedric servants should be a given. Fathis Arnen had a hidden lair FULL of permenantly summoned Daedra . . . and he was a mere Journeyman of Conjouration!

I do think that speaking Daedra should be capable of being spoken to when summoned. Dremora can become Fiercely loyal, Xivalli can be rebellious if not treated respectfully etc. I think all these things should play into how the Daedra behave. Perhaps if you are rude to Xivialli, or leave them standing post outside for too long a span etc. maybe they DO turn on you, but not all Daedra should do so, depending on sub-species temperment etc.

P.S. thanks for the lore link.

yeah, permanent summons would be kinda neat, I'd like it if you could enchant an object that, whenever not in your posession, would summon a daedra, and should that daedra die, after a few hours, it would summon a new daedra, and so on until it ran out of power, or was picked up by someone. Would be a great method of assasination, sneak into someone's bedroom, drop the item, kill the first daedra, then, a few hours later when the target is in bed, an atronach suddenly leaps out at him.

No it didn't. It stopped massive invasions, and direct attacks from Dagon (at least until and unless he finds another loophole) but it didn't send Daedra alread lurking in Mundus back into Oblivion. Conjourers and the like could still have and DID still have their long term Daedric allies in Mundus. Umaril was able to get Meridia to send Daedra in to desecrate the temples of those Aedra he had special enmity for, and they had to be banished back into Oblivion, all this occuring AFTER The Oblivion Incident. And, of course, Sheogorath dropped an Island out of his Daedric Realm right into the center of The Niben Bay, complete with a gate into his realm. What Akatosh did prevents Daedra from instantaneously overruning Mundus, it is not a complete and absolute cancellation of any entry to Mundus by Daedric entities.

Yeah. In short: Akatosh, at the end of Oblivion, prevented Daedra from entering Mundus uninvited. Things are now back to the way they were. Daedra can and will be summonable and can still enter when invited, but only from a set amount of time.

well if not deadra at least undead mini armies would be nice.

The Daedra have so much more of both style and substance than The Undead. To my mind, at least, they are far more intriguing.

Here tell me how this sounds for a way to get permanent summons.

Perk: Rite of Summoning
Requires: 60 Willpower, 70 Magic and 75 Conjuration
Gain the ability to activate summoning ring in Unnamed Dungeon.

The summoning ring will be at the end of this dungeon and this will be a high-level unscaled dungeon (if those exist). The summoning ring will require a couple of full grand soul gems and it will be built around a destroyed Oblivion Gate.

EDIT:
A few things to add. First, Daedra only. Undead aren't generally that interesting and while I support them adding Necromantic options (maybe even a permanent summon perk that is mutually exclusive with this one), Daedra as conjured seems more fitting. Second when you activate it, the ring brings up a list of Daedra types you can make permanent and when you choose one it will select a random name for it. These bound Daedra will scale with you. Finally each time one of your bound Daedra is killed you can re-summon with more full grand soul gems and Daedra Artifact (or equivalent).

what I would like is for Bethesda to stick to their Lore




Summoning -daedra- should be different from summoning a Boar or a skeleton, I should not be able to press a button and call it a day for perma summons, rituals done by the character and summoning a particular Daedra and giving it a name and commands based on its INT and Type should be included, whether binding them to a an Amulet or a ring.

if im a novice and by some unholy machination manage to summon a poweful Dremora or aa pack of clanfears I should recieve the consequences for my impudence

I think it should be something like this, but it should definitely require a perk. However, Daedra are not easy beings to control. I think that there should be some sort of mechanic to force you to keep you're Daedra in check, or it will turn on you. Higher Daedra and undead, like dremora, xivilai (sp), liches, etc would be harder to control and would turn against you more easily, while lesser deadra and undead, (scamps, skeletons, zombies, etc) would be much easier to control.

I wholeheartedly agree

You could do this in Morrowind through the soul trap glitch. Building an army of Dremora is fun (until the game crashes)

Nice contribution. I was planning on making a post similar to this. Having magicka drained constantly or having to sacrafice/appease a summon daily seems quite excessive. People are saying you need to pay for a permenant Deadra summon, perhaps. But look at the facts, what is your payment? That high conjuration skill.

You don't look at someone who has got perks in sword fighting that does loads of damage and say "they need to have their stamina constantly drained to pay for this", they have paid for it, by training their one-handed skill and getting the related perks. It also makes little sense as far as lore is concerned as far as I'm aware.

This I like. Perhaps in addition to the gems a sacrifice might be required for more powerful Daedra, but the sacrifice could be of a hostile NPC as easily as a non-hostile. Whether blood would be required, or a heart etc. It might be something different altoghether, like a lesser variant of the things which The Daedric Princes require before the offering of quests (Glow Dust, Troll Fat, Minotaur Horns, Ogre teeth etc.)

I also think, rather than constantly draining a players magicka whcih seems unfeasible, and which doesn't seem to be the way long term (permanent) counjured Daedra behave at the lairs of Conjourers, I think that the initial ritual should carry the greatest risk, and the success or failure of control from the onset should be largely based upon the skill of the caster. I.E. A journeyman who summons a Dremora, an Aureal/Golden Saint, or a Xivilia could achieve the summons but might be attacked on sight, whereas a Master would receive proper service from these creatures, (though, depending on type, more willfull, chaotic beings like Xivallia might rebel if the sorcerer consistently is disrepectful in speech or interaction with the Daedra. The likelihod of revolt should be less with Dremora and those other Daedra types who are used to operating in a hierarchal system, and are keen on loyalty etc. , whereas the Xivallai are infamous for betrayl and revolt in the face of disrespect). A lower level conjurer who summons a Daedric servant but is attacked by it will still gain in conjuration skill, provided he or she survives the attack. As an added penalty, the sorcerer may incur the permanent dislike of that Daedra, who may hunt him/her across Skyrim until banished or trapped.

I was thinking about perhaps a "hear of battle" version of a powerful daedric summoning (Would last until all nearby enemies are dead or until it is defeated) greatly crippling your own combat abilities and perhaps making the summoned creature random as your skill increases.

It would be nice if summoned Daedra had variance in their attitudes/behaviores.


Aureals (golden saints) Blunt but not in a ignorance sort of way, they are straight to the point, not quick to put an axe in your eye but do get irritated if you have them around without a clear sense of goal or are meek and tame.

Mazken (Dark Seducers) a little more friendly than their Golden Skin counter parts, they are no less dangerous however and very intelligent devious infact and wont make a second look to exploit you should you show any form of weakness.

Dremora, probably one of the most dangerous of the *intelligent* Daedra, Dremora have the least patience with their summoners especially those who do not exhibit great intelligence and strenght. they aren't up for "talking" with inexperienced summoners and will not hesitate to kill you and cause mayhem on their own should you show inexperience.

Antronachs, often silent and unrelenting in thier static experession, Antronachs do not speak often outside their plane and are exceptionally devious due to their nature and are best given a clear goal. they usually obey commands without question and seem to be content with waiting indefinently as they do not consume food or require sustinance beyond the residual magicka that all Antronachs sustain themselves from.

if your gonna have a good god yes then you need a sounds like pluck no, just saying

(i voted ggyes)

Not entirely true. In TES history, powerful conjurers have been able to bring a Daedra to Mundus permanently. Though, the word "permanent" is used loosely. Essentially, once a Daedra is summoned in this fashion, it will stay in Mundus until it's summoner dismisses it, or it's physical body in Mundus is destroyed. At this point, the Daedra's soul will return to the realm of Oblivion that it came from.

Actually Ainur, I did consider this and while I didn't include it, there is an explanation to why you don't need to sacrifice the first time and yet it becomes so costly after. The Oblivion Gate the circle uses as a base was closed by the banishing of Mehrunes Dagon, not some hero/guard/what-have-you, nor did the Daedra who were summoned to it abandon it. As such the energy that was able to break the barrier between Oblivion and Nirn lingers until your character uses it. After that such a ritual (without creating some mini-game) would require something that already establishes a permanent and powerful link between Oblivion and Nirn ie. Daedric Artifacts. I could see some other set of special, hard to get items or something like that could work though.

Perhaps instead of Artifacts there could be some Daedric Altars you could make sacrifices to in the room with the pedestal. It is a considerably less severe way of imposing a cost to the benefit.

Can you provide a source for that? Or did you mean "'permanent' is used loosely" in the sense that it's not really permanent, but is actually just an incredibly long summon but it will, nonetheless, eventually return back to Oblivion, because that is also what I meant. I'm almost positive that Daedra cannot be permanently bound to Mundus.

I like all of this. These are good suggestions. See also Xivalia, Winged Twilights etc. I really want to see those Daedra associated with Sanguine. One Day!

Of the Dremora I agree, except to say this. When the summoner shows great power and balances dominion with respect in dealing with them, they should eventually be amongst the most reliably loyal Daedra. Unlike Dagon himself, and unlike The Xivalai, The Dremora are said to be, despite their battle lust and cruelty, fiercely loyal once that devotion is gained, and they are also said AND shown to have a deep sense of honour. They especially honour those who have shown mastery over their own in combat. Recall what is said of them in Varieties of Daedra, The Book of The Daedra, and the interaction between the Dremora we first meet in Camoran's realm.

Permanent is a strong word, but in this context I simply take it to mean, "here for the long haul, i.e., until banished, dismissed or given an out." It is not eternal. Even a Daedra bound in an artifact is not a permenant state. The weapon will someday fail or be broken, the daedra released. Until such a time, however. . . The Daedra bound to Nirn may walk it for centuries, but someday that will end.

To the earlier poster, even after the banishing of Mehrunes Dagon, "permanently" summoned Daedra can still be found all throught Mundus. If they are only sustained therein by a finite spell effect, they are not remotely "permanent." It would be like any other timed spell, except that, instead of draining the energy up front and then acting independently, it would continually drain the caster's magicka until depleted, and then expire. For even a very powerful mage, such a summons likely could not endure for more than a matter of hours, or days at most. The Nirn bound Daedra encounterd in Elder Scrolls can be steadily tied to Mundus for years, decades, centuries and beyond. This would be virtually impossible if they were dismissed back into Oblivion the moment the summoners magicka went down below a certain level.