Binding Daedra to Nirn. I.E. Permanent Summons. The Test of : V

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:29 am

As one ever fond of and fascinated by The Varieties of Lesser Daedra

bliviongate: (when they behave, lol) I really would have liked the ability, as a master conjourer, to bind some to my service in Nirn, through some ritual or other, as the conjourers in prior games have clearly done ( in so much as Daedra lurk about their dens, both inside and out). This would be something akin to the Frost Atronach who could be permanantly summoned in the wizard's tower DLC, except far more expansive in what types of Daedra could be accessed.

bliviongate:

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:36 am

In other fantasy settings familiars are always possible, so yeah there should be some. However I would like there to be some kind of necromancy school or spell list, put absorb health spells in that and the summoning of undead etc...because it was annoying knowing it was being used by NPCs (or well at least that something CALLED necromancy was) and I couldn't use it

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:30 pm

I'm really hoping that they'll have permanent summons as maybe a mid-level perk. I know, I'm being greedy.

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:54 pm

You should have to perform some sort of ritual to acquire a permanent summon. If your summon gets killed, then other Daedra would be less likely to deal with you, so the ritual to acquire another permanent summon would be harder.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:52 am

A high/mid-teir Perk that allows your summons to stick around until they die, sounds awesome.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:07 am

Sure, that sounds like a good idea. You should have too go through a ritual too make it permanent though. The Firmanent hold the dedra out, but through some unmentioned(in-game) rituals you can permanently(or at least until they are physically destroyed) summon them. It would add a lot of immersion too conjuration.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:04 am

You should have to perform some sort of ritual to acquire a permanent summon. If your summon gets killed, then other Daedra would be less likely to deal with you, so the ritual to acquire another permanent summon would be harder.

Or just punish the player directly. Maybe have it take off 50% or some other hefty number of your health if it dies, as if it was bound to your soul.

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:26 pm

If not deadra then at least in necromancy we should be able to do this

Perhaps it could work as simply as having a summoned creature *permanently* with you would have your magicka drained X points until the creature dies, to represent the connection and effort made to keep it in Nirn.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:37 am

As one ever fond of and fascinated by The Varieties of Lesser Daedra

bliviongate: (when they behave, lol) I really would have liked the ability, as a master conjourer, to bind some to my service in Nirn, through some ritual or other, as the conjourers in prior games have clearly done ( in so much as Daedra lurk about their dens, both inside and out). This would be something akin to the Frost Atronach who could be permanantly summoned in the wizard's tower DLC, except far more expansive in what types of Daedra could be accessed.

bliviongate:

I would only like this if it's something like the Lord of the Pit in Magic the Gathering. That is, you have to continue feeding it sacrifices, or it will turn on you, or if there is some OTHER mechanism in which your summoned creature might break the bonds of your control and turn on you.

Why? Because doing serious Black Magic should be dangerous.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:21 am

I would only like this if it's something like the Lord of the Pit in Magic the Gathering. That is, you have to continue feeding it sacrifices, or it will turn on you, or if there is some OTHER mechanism in which your summoned creature might break the bonds of your control and turn on you.

Why? Because doing serious Black Magic should be dangerous.

Good thought, but giving your summons sacrifices each day wouldn't fit with the lore though (Altough it may work for hungers). Maybe you have invest a part of your magicka to bind it to your will (if you use that part of your magicka it unsummons/turns on you)

I also think this should be depandant of the daedra you summon, xilliavi (or whatever they are called) and dremora are very pridefull beings, scamps and ogrim on the other hand should be easier to keep in check.

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:21 pm

Daedric weapons are arguably precisely that, in a different sense.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:43 am

In Morrowind I could enchant items with constant effect summons. I'd like to be able to do that again.

Sustained summons that taps a part of you magicka could be great, but probably easily exploitable.
Another idea is summons that slowly drain your magicka, so their duration is based on your magicka pool. If your mana regenerates faster than your summon drains it, you will have a constant effect summon.

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:47 pm

yep sounds good if you're a master conjurer, or at least quite high. Should probably be a longer spell to perform though, so you can't just do it in the heat of battle.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:19 am

In Morrowind I could enchant items with constant effect summons. I'd like to be able to do that again.

Sustained summons that taps a part of you magicka could be great, but probably easily exploitable.
Another idea is summons that slowly drain your magicka, so their duration is based on your magicka pool. If your mana regenerates faster than your summon drains it, you will have a constant effect summon.

I like this idea a lot, actually. That could make conjuration more awesome. And that would even be great for other player types who don't specialize in magic, but have tons of potions and Conjuration skill. You could have a constant undead/daedric companion for combat.

Maybe even just a perk. Who knows? The possibilities are many.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:44 am

Or, they can just give us a triple duration summoning perk. After all, our main beef about this issue is that Summons last too short, is it not?

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:04 am

I like the idea of reducing your maximum available magika to sustain a conjuration. Seems like a good balance.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:01 am

It should also be :swear: dangerous to traffic deadra especially Dremora, and if the proper precautions aren't taken it should tax you heavily on Magicka or health, because thats what Deadric magic does....

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:22 am

It should also be :swear: dangerous to traffic deadra especially Dremora, and if the proper precautions aren't taken it should tax you heavily on Magicka or health, because thats what Deadric magic does....

Not a bad idea for there to be consequences.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:30 am

Scamps, Deadroth, and other non-NPCish ones could easily work if it's a perk that requires like 75 - 80 in conjuration, it would probably be specific named ones instead of the same old ones you always just summon, so they have some meaning to actually staying with you. If they die they simply go back the planes of oblivion and you lose them like any other companion. Each type would have to have some sort of advantage to the others, cause who would have a scamp when you could have a clanfear or something.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:15 am

Summoning should expend a great amount of magicka, and continually drain it in order to stay "anchored" (or however that works). The more magicka you have, the better the wizard you are (meaning your capabilities should scale as well, and not just rely on a perk or two).

You could summon your best Daedra, but use a spell and have that Daedra vanish because you've exhausted your magicka (which means there would be a bit of strategy involved when it comes to summoning). It would also mean that you could (potentially) summon multiple creatures, so long as you have available magicka.

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:15 pm

Summoning should expend a great amount of magicka, and continually drain it in order to stay "anchored" (or however that works). The more magicka you have, the better the wizard you are (meaning your capabilities should scale as well, and not just rely on a perk or two).

You could summon your best Daedra, but use a spell and have that Daedra vanish because you've exhausted your magicka (which means there would be a bit of strategy involved when it comes to summoning). It would also mean that you could (potentially) summon multiple creatures, so long as you have available magicka.

Your missing the point of the main discussion. The question is whether we should be able to permanently bring deadra to our plane of existence, like the scamp in I believe Anvil's mage's guild. Or the scamp merchant in Caldera.

Little bit of lore http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:33 am

I'm not missing the point of the main discussion. I'm suggesting an alternative that makes for a better summoning system and can allow for permanent summons (as long as you have a steady supply of magicka). I don't think you should be able to permanantly (and with no actual cost other than one-time magicka usage) summon a Daedra through spellcasting (perks or not).

However, if you're dead-set on having creatures follow you around, 24/7, a system that uses soul gems and various alters would be best (you'd need a soul gem that holds the same type of soul as the Daedra you'd like to summon, and you'd also need to find the specific alter for that Daedra as well).

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:11 am

I'm not missing the point of the main discussion. I'm suggesting an alternative that makes for a better summoning system and can allow for permanent summons (as long as you have a steady supply of magicka). I don't think you should be able to permanantly (and with no actual cost other than one-time magicka usage) summon a Daedra through spellcasting (perks or not).

However, if you're dead-set on having creatures follow you around, 24/7, a system that uses soul gems and various alters would be best (you'd need a soul gem that holds the same type of soul as the Daedra you'd like to summon, and you'd also need to find the specific alter for that Daedra as well).

To be honest I could care less if this is implemented. I only voted yes. not good god yes.

» Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:56 pm

Summoning should expend a great amount of magicka, and continually drain it in order to stay "anchored" (or however that works). The more magicka you have, the better the wizard you are (meaning your capabilities should scale as well, and not just rely on a perk or two).

You could summon your best Daedra, but use a spell and have that Daedra vanish because you've exhausted your magicka (which means there would be a bit of strategy involved when it comes to summoning). It would also mean that you could (potentially) summon multiple creatures, so long as you have available magicka.

I think Bioware had a much better way of doing it with their sustained spells system. Just have the summon keep a portion of your magicka reserved for keeping them in existence, and thus giving you a smaller pool of magicka to work with. And then perhaps, if you hit zero, releasing them to either break out from under your control, or go back from whence they came.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:49 am

I like the idea, so long as it isn't explained as "permanent" Daedra summon or "binding Daedra" to Mundus, as you described. The semantics are important here. They can't really be in Nirn/Mundus permanently, and those Daedra we encounter with Conjurers in Oblivion and around Daedric ruins are just extremely long summons. I'd be fine with, gameplay-wise, a permanent summon, in the same way that Daedric artifacts are permanent, but lore-wise, it will eventually vanish and return to the Daedric Prince who handed it out.