The italian magazine coverage says there will be no birthsigns.

I could take the whole spell creation dissappearing hit. But no birth signs? I really hope Beth has a good reason for taking out birth signs. Why couldn't they just repurpose them to be something else or have different effects on characters from the previous games. Even if it did just give a small attribute boost and a spell or two it was a nice little thing to flesh out your character.

Could anyone please give a good explanation for this, why they might have been completely taken out? I just want a good explanation.

Only thing I can think up is due to lack of info on attributes, attributes might not return and birth signs were for the most part attribute boosts. So since their is a possibility for no attributes, this may be the reason. :shrug:

Try not to rant and find an explanation.

Whre has it been said there are no attributes? Ive read everything there is, and ive found nothing.

There hasn't really been any info on them, so some people assume the attributes are gone. Not really concrete info on it though.

Unfortunately, many of these roleplay mechanics seem to require a reason to be included, rather than a reason to be cut - so the explanation from some points of view might be that there isn't a particularly compelling reason to include them.

I'm of the opinion that their ties to lore and the additional (now traditional) layer of character customisation they offer are more than good enough reasons to include them. But for the purposes of gameplay alone, they could be viewed as redundant; birthsigns are essentially perks.

They svcked, anyway, in my opinion. I'd much rather have an advantages/disadvantages system as in Daggerfall... or perhaps perks do a better job of replacing birthsigns.

lol now i think of it they did svck on recollection i think they will have filled the hole rather nicely.

... :hubbahubba:

I was never really so sure about birthsigns either, possible because people who take astrology seriously in real life get on my nerves, haha.

Well, the birthsigns were put in as a replacement of the advantages/disadvantages from Daggerfall (if I remember correctly). They were interesting and fun but I'm not really sure how I feel about them not being in, if they are for certain not going to be in. I'd prefer wait until we get more information or I can play the game before I can make a reasonable opinion.

Did the magazine say with absolute certainty birthsigns were out completely?

Honestly, we still have zero actual information on character creation besides that all the races are in and that there are beads, scars, tattoos, etc. We have no information of if they will have tag skills, specializations, starting perks, or whatever.

A lot of what is happening on this forum (particularly spell making) is due to terrible writing or bad translations. We need much, much more information before we can really get an idea of the big picture.

Honestly, Oblivion's birthsigns were mostly fluff anyway, a few levels in they didn't matter. I assume the ones that did, like Atronach, will be handled with a start-game perk, rather than removed.

I'd be very pleased to see the birthsigns gone from the series.

A couple of points here:

1. The recent coverage of the UI doesn't mention any page where attributes may be viewed. We've seen the skills screen, no attributes there. They aren't going to be on the map or inventory screen. I think if attributes were in, they would have been mentioned in passing by now.
2. I thought Birthsigns did a very nice job of making your character and little different from other cookie cutter characters. It was your choice. Similar to building your character in DF and how the series has stripped that customization away, until we are left with this.
3. I like the way they are handling skills, sounds very cool. However, the more you take away from teh character depth, the less that choice matters. I.E. The Birthsign was an important decision, because you were going to have it for the entire game.
4. If Birthsigns are gone and presumably replaced by perks, then the decisions you make carry very little weight. By the end of the game, you can make up for any decision, because you can pick nearly every perk offered.

Wether or not it is true info or just speculation, I don't see why they could have just repurposed them some other way. Maybe they have repurposed them...

Birthsigns were a nice way to set your character apart right from the beginning but really there were only a few that were used anyways. The only thing useful about them were starting attribute bonuses but unless you played a very specific way or had something like OOO your character was going to basically be a broken mess or be able to destroy anything. Perks will be ok, I'd much rather have custom spells again.

Well, I like roleplaying as a shadowscale argonian in the Dark Brotherhood, so I'll be disappointed because one of the requirements to be a shadowscale was to be born under the sing of the Shadow.

Birth Signs were just another feature that made ES unique. I'll be disappointed if they're gone completely. Even if the effects are gone they should be kept in as a kind of flagship/keepsake.

dunno how some people are calling birthsigns worthless... moonshadow anyone? saved my life many a time in morrowind.

I like them. They give a sense of differentiation from the outset in a mystical sort of way....and lend well to role playing.
I wouldn't mind if the points of interest (skills, attributes, spells,...) were changed within them though,.
perhaps each should have an up and a down side to them, like the Atronach has.

Why mention them in passing, they didn't say where the quest log is in the menu, yet they mentioned it in the magazine. The GI article talk only about the world map and the skill sub-menus. The 4 main menu divisions are the same that they used in Oblivion: Character, Inventory, Map and Magic.

Also, using that logic, there isn't any joinable Factions or Achievements in the game either...


(I'm totally tired of people saying something was removed because it haven't been mentioned yet...)

Do you have a link to the magazine website?

(Not for the info, just curios)

The more I hear, or I should say read, that things are being elimanted, it sounds more and more less of a TES game. But after giving some time to think about, and nerd rage dispersess, I think this is a good idea.

With almost all characters become the same after level 30 or towards the end of the game, does it really matter? Not being able to pick a class or make one seems like less choice, but the way I see it, customizing
your character as the game progresses seems great. You may start off as a thief or what ever and then change it, if you don't like to be a thief anymore, because of change of heart, or not as fun. Maybe this will be
the end of restartitis now, or the very least, limit how many times we restart our games now.

So I am actually looking forward to this.

To add, the birthsigns and constellations were extremely minor to begin with anyway. Nothing but a watered down version of advantages and disadvantages.

I don't understand how they could not be reworked to be perks like your Traits in FO:NV. Like The Lady could be a Speech/Persuasion/whatever boost and a health boost. (Personality/Endurance), Thief could be a dodging bonus or Sanctuary effect like in Morrowind, Atronach could stay the same as Oblivion without issue, Mage, Warrior and Tower could all stay the exact same as Morrowind and work..

Given a couple days I alone could think of how it could work perfectly, so I see no reason they should be cut at all.



I could not disagree more. Some of them were minor, but things like The Apprentice and The Atronach changed your entire game rather dramatically. And what's wrong with starting dis/advantages? It just adds more customization to the character, and isn't that what they've been pushing?

Just because birthsigns weren't interesting in other games doesn't mean they can't be remade into something awesome.

Likewise, I feel that Mysticism is only redundant if you aren't creative enough to think of new kinds of spells and effects for it - and distinct spells for the other schools so that they don't have to borrow mysticism spells to add to spell quantity.

EDIT: They don't even have to affect character attributes or spells, they could instead subtly affect quests, loot drops, appearance, and/or dialog.

I'm all for trying new game-play mechanism, as long as they keep the game immersive enough, with deep personality of its own and a unique sense of culture, and give me satisfaction enough from developing my characters, give me enough sense of triumph over challenging situations, give me enough content and variety to explore and conquer, give me a world that feels real, in its own coherent reality standards, and challenge me a lot to keep me straggling for the entire course of the game, so that I do not feel "OK, I've done it all. No more challenges for my character." ever.

This would be my ideal role playing game, and in such a game, I'm ready to try any new game mechanism.