Basically, the question is in the topic title. Are we seeing a further degeneration of our beloved series?

If you think not, what's your reasoning? What depth has been added to counter the elimination of certain stats?

We have perks now and a more flexible, less restrictive system. We can truly RP who we want to be. Attributes will still be fluctuating behind the scenes, they just won't be in our way anymore.

There are already tons of threads on this topic... many of which are still on the first page of the forum..... please look to those.

Inb4 a Dragon-dork!

Well, the series did have a pattern of removing attributes and such. I fear the worse, we got reason to believe it will continue this way.

EDIT: Whoops, too late.

Can you look down the board before making another thread about this? -> http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193905-please-dont-tell-me-birthsigns-are-gone/

I am sorry to say but this is probably not going to travel in a direction you intended. I would be a bit more sensative or aware about the hot buttons on these forums, but you can't be blamed for not knowing.

It's hard to say how it'll feel exactly until we play. I'm not worried, though.

In the event it does feel "dumbed down" us PC players will always have mods to make it feel "smarter".

i dont consider this dumbing the game down, just trimming the fat. remember howmany skills we had in daggerfall

There's some great attribute discussions going on here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193538-how-will-the-game-world-work-without-attributes/page__pid__17735758__st__60#entry17735758 here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193905-please-dont-tell-me-birthsigns-are-gone/page__st__40 and here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193806-modding-in-attributes/page__st__60

thats probably the way to go, they aren't as hostile as they have been in the past at the moment so it should be more informative than a negative experience to drop those threads. its likely some where in them you'll see exactly what you have proposed here, both sides of the debate.

Guys, I'm not simply talking about missing attributes, so thanks for all the links to attribute topics.

This is a discussion about the degeneration of a series, and if this simplification includes this game as well. We merely have missing attributes and lack of birthsigns to confirm this. Next, maybe we'll hear about the simplification of equipment, or lack of depth in quests.

Removing things ALWAYS have to mean they're dumbing it down, and Ruining RPGs right? More is ALWAYS better...
:violin:

no.

Birthsigns barely did anything, and perks will do nearly the same things.
And the "depth" of attributes are still in, you can still differentiate and specialize your character using skills and perks.



And yes, this is a great conspiracy of the console people. Next time you won't be able to change your name, or your race. The path is clear, how can't anyone see... :rolleyes:

Xeno nah, you won't get anywhere progressive in that kind of discussion here. some will say 280 perks offer variation others say it doesn't a varying level of incoherence and even saying degredation of the series people will disagree with. (they will take it as dumbing down) your better off not advocating this discussion.

There's lots of threads about that too. As always, I have no opinion on this since the only TES game I've ever played is Oblivion. So far, I have not noticed any downgrades.

umm.... Birthsigns gave you powerful Magic, Health, and stamina boosts and skill boosts at the start. They also gave you very cool and unique spells. Birthsigns will not be in perks becuase perks only consist of all the skills so I'm guessing there will be more race benifits in Skyrim.... :celebration:

By pretty cool unique spells you mean the useless ones, you only cast once a day, and you could always create a similar one in the spellmaker?

cool is subjective, he might have really been into those spells. the paralize one could not be replicated btw, if you did make in in spell maker it would be uncastable. any ways, my favourite birthsigns did not have spells I usually picked the ones that increased my magicka or my endurance.

What I guess is that compared to its predecessors and older RPGs, it's possible Skyrim may feel like an RPG with training wheels on. It could be Beth is afraid its crowd, especially newcomers I guess, will be overwhelmed by too many options, stats and other things to keep in check. Does this make sense or did I ponder too much on it again? xD

its not easy to say if its simplyfied or dumbed down, people who are hyped about SK are going to say no of course and people who don't like the information they are getting will say yes. Me? i don't care so much about dumbing down if it doesn't affect my ability to role play, as long as I can still do that I can make it as complicated as I choose.

While I'm not a big fan of Birthsigns and Attributes going away I have no problem with them leaving and being replaced by a better system although we will have to wait and see how the game functions without attributes. This isn't a bad thing nor is it dumbing down the game. Attributes were bad in Oblivion and Morrowind, they had to go. The only way they could've stay is if they didn't interfere with the skills but that sadly isn't going to happen. I wished they would've went with something like Fallout 3 had but oh well.

Birthsigns on the other hand their must be a very specific reason as to why they were let go. I'm thinking that because the Birthsigns put so many numbers out there like Atronach, Mage, Warrior, that they weren't needed or they are now perks.

Thanks for the link - OP, you can read and contribute in some of the ongoing topics on this discussion.

For some of you regulars - we want this to be a welcoming place, so making snide remarks about using search functions, etc? Don't do it.