I just used Thief every time. The other "stat bonus" ones didn't seem as useful, most of the "lesser power" ones seemed silly, and the small handful of "wow, big change!" ones seemed both really specific and potentially really annoying.

And with all the stat bonus ones going away (since there's no Str/Int/etc...), and them not liking that people could accidentally screw themselves over ("wow, 100% vulnerability to magic is much svckier than I could possibly have imagined six hours ago!"), that means that all we'd have left are the boring lesser powers.

Why not? they arnt confirmed. You might ruin your game by picking a race with abilities you didnt know or mean to have. :rolleyes:

And the Dragon isn't a birthsign (that we know of). They were still born under different signs with different characteristics.

Birthsigns aren't useless. They add a layer of customization just as races do. Races all have disadvantages and advantages, and I'm pretty sure we can all agree being able to pick one is a good thing. Birthsigns are no different; it's like picking a secondary race. Why the [censored] does Bethesda think players will be overwhelmed by choosing a race in the beginning of the game?

Oh no, I picked the Steed and now I'm [censored]! If birthsigns were never part of the game, boy that would sure improve my gaming experience!

Here's what I said in the other topic :

I'm not disapointed to learn that birthsigns are out, after all the birthsigns that boosted your attributes don't mean anything now that attributes are out and those that gave you greater powers can be replaced by perks (a sneak perk could give you the shadow's greater power).

You could say the same thing about races. Why don't we just have one race and have perks take care of the rest?

They don't make decisions like that for no reason.They have obviously found ( what they think ) is a better way/system. We have yet to know more on this aswell as play the game. But even from the bits we do know i think it's going to be the best system yet. It really does let you focus on what you are and what you play,without worrying too much...but that's my opinion.....We have to atleast give it a chance or let them release new info on it.

Yes, birthsigns can be replaced with perks. But so can race traits. It doesn't mean removing birthsigns and races is a good idea. I fail to see how completely removing birthsigns is an improvement, but it certainly appears to be a negative for a lot of players.

I agree that birthsigns as we knew them needed to be gutted. But they should have made them better.

Instead of attribute/stat boosts and a seldom useful power that we can use once a day, they should have made them underlying features our character had.

So someone born under the sign of the Warrior had a 5% boost to attack power. Someone born under the Serpent had a 10% chance of instantly killing the victim of a successful sneak attack. I made a list of what I thought they all should be, but it's useless to try and find them again now that they're gone.

It's like Bethesda looks at things as either necessary or completely useless. There are mediums. If something is an okay feature but needs work, then work on improving it rather than just getting rid of it.

I'm not hating on Skyrim, I think it's going to be the best TES yet. But it is looking a little simple.

I don't see the big deal of this.

Birthsigns are only a tiny tiny little feature of your character characteristics. A little feature a spell can replace or an item enchantment.
Imo it feels more natural to gain the same effect from a character development and from the coices of your actions, not some static choice at the beginning of your game.

Skyrim has changed in how leveling and skills and everything like that works. It's now much more dynamic and less static. Things work fluently and depend totally on your actions throughout the game. The path you choose is determined by the choices of your actions. That's how it works now, and I very much like it. It's elegant, logical and simply better I think. Birthsigns kind of breaks all that and was therefore removed.

We have to see specific info in context to the game in whole, before we jump out and say "OMG THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!".

That's not the Birthsign's fault, that's the dev's fault for not being creative.

I made a birthsign mod for morrowind, http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=254548&id=6640.

I'm being obnoxiously repetitive here, but how the hell do birthsigns "break all that" and race traits don't?

We have no idea how race traits work now. I can't say if that breaks it or not. No one can. Except for Betehsda of course.

On the other hand, I honestly do like birthsigns themselves. It's a nice little feature. But they don't fit with Bethesda's current take on leveling and skills and all that. What they achieve can be replaced just as good by other things that fit more naturally with Bethesda's new system.

But, another possibility I think would be to change birthsigns themselves. Give them more different powers that can't be achieved as easily through spells and items. That would give them a better role in all of this, but at the same time they could get too powerful, and break things even more by "making a game-ruining decision within the first hour".

All in all, I think birthsigns could be something nice and good, but it doesn't quite work with the current system Bethesda has.
Whether race traits work as well, I'm not sure. No one is sure.

You will have a birthsign in Skyrim, the birthsign of the dragon. You are a dragonborn for god's sake. You have the "birthsign ability" of using dragon shouts.

What will be next Imagine playing RPG in COD?
Then better if Bethesda Imagine thats we pay for their product, because if such simplifications will continue they will lose customers from fanbase, modder will not do their work, and fixing their flaws everytime.
If continue to lose features from series game become another generic fantasy game like Two Worlds or Arcania.

Thats not right because we can use advantages from birthsign as powers, and certain birthsign greatly change gameplay experience


You know thats leveling can be applied to birthrights and racial traits? Make birthsign useful enchant with additional features and they work wonderful
Besides certain birthsign affect gameplay and after beginning.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with that. I'm still gonna miss 'em though

I felt the same way about Fallout...
(and this too, of course.)

Its all about what you care for, and what was important to you. Minor changes to some, are really damaging to others; (and the little things can add up).

If the perktrees are really supposed to represent your new "birthsign" (at least they do in the menu), you should gain a special perk after reaching level 50 depending on the perks you chose.
For example, if your perks are very combat-heavy, you should gain the Warrior-Birthsign-Perk, if you are combat-heavy and maxed out the Blocking tree you should get The Tower, etc.
Would add a nice sense of achievement, too.

Wishful thinking, but that would be nice

I would definitely be OK with this, but I simply dont see this happening, he did say 'removed' after all.

You were born on an uncertain day to uncertain parents. You dont know what your birthsign is.

I don't think so either, but this wouldn't be too extensive for a mod I guess.

Some more suggetsions:

That would actually be quite interesting to say the least.

Whilst I agree that (most) birthsigns only have any real use early on in the game, and any RP they allowed can be easily recreated by perks, I still think it'd be cool if your character could gradually "discover" their birthsign depending on how the constellation map on the skills screen forms.

For instance, as one begins to further develop their magic skills, Todd mentioned that the constellation of The Mage, a classic guardian dating back to Arena, would begin to become visible. Perhaps as these constellations became stronger, you begin to notice the effects of the stars on your character - your birthsign, if you will. A thief specialized in lockpicking may gradually inherit an ability from the sign of The Tower, for example. Gives you even greater incentive to build your character a certain way, without necessarily "breaking" anything if you choose to be well-rounded. Helps with roleplaying too.

Birthsigns developed over time? How does that makes sense? Birthsigns are supposed to be given at you at birth. But we don't experience birth in TES, so we would naturally get it instead the first time we see our character... in other words, at our character creation.

If birthsigns are developed over time, it's no longer birthsigns. I like the concept said above, but it shouldn't be called birthsigns then.