Taken the quote from the other thread, but I think this deserves its own since I think a lot of people, not just me, would be greatly upset by them removing birthsigns.

"Other decisions, like Birth Sign, have been removed, so players needn't worry about making a game-ruining decision within the first hour."

So to prevent us from experimenting and ruining our game or making the character we want because it has the possibility that we will regret our decision later, they are removing it completely!? This is not right! This is like saying because a mage will svck with a 2 handed sword, we took away the ability to use it completely so you wont svck as playing the game!! This is really bad news if its true.

Brithsigns also help a lot in RP. I always picked the atronach sign and relied on potions to keep my magicka supplied, now nothing of that sort is going to be an option

I think someone said birthsigns wil be developed over time.

I tend to agree. This whole "lets gut TES and make it completely different for seemingly no reason whatsoever" thing is kind of going too far..
I was fine with the removal of skills..was "ok" with the removal of attributes..now this? Seriously? What's next, Daedra?
:thumbsdown:

I dont see how that makes sense though. Its a Birth sign, not a set of perks you will pick up over time as you level... I think he means they are gone for good.

No, they attached the star constellation imagery to the skills - I think each perk you get lights up one star on the constellation (or something like that. Not much info yet.)

Which makes no sense. You're either born under a certain sign or you're not. If you're born under the thief and want to be a warrior, you're not prevented from doing so, you just might not be as strong as someone born under the warrior sign. Deal with it. It's no different than choosing to be an Altmer and later deciding to be a warrior. It adds an additional challenge and more room for roleplaying.

How does choosing your birth sign make any more sense than what he said? If anything it would make more sense if you were randomly given a birth sign.

I wonder how they are going to explain this 'lore-wise'?

And I just wrote this in another thread...

I didn't think it made much sense either, but I think it's to make room for perks, hopefully someone with more knowledge will tell us more about it.

um, why remove them? how will i RP my shadowscale?

I think the reason they removed them is because of the decision to make the menu for the skill trees be associated with the same constellations the birth signs were. So, they didn't want to double up on it, since you have to "turn on" the stars in the constellations over time to represent your character instead of choose it at first. I think they could have had both. You select a birthsign constellation, and this gives you a small extra bonus to skills/perks associated with that particular constellation. That would be good enough for me, and I hope it can be modded in.

And I responded with this:

I saw birthsigns as kind of a natural ability that helped your character at lower levels and as your character advanced he would rely less and less on his natural talents and more on his acquired skills. In that sense, your character is not ruined if you chose the wrong birthsign and it doesn't matter if you birthsign loses importance as you reach higher levels. I see no good reason for cutting them out.

You are Dragonborn! Your destiny isn't fulfilled yet, and anything is possible. Instead of just picking a random birthsign that generally gives you a useless ability in the long run, you get to build your own constellation of who you really are. Instead of following the path set before you, Dragonborn makes his/her own path!

Might as well removal racial attributes as well, huh?

They were not useless to me and a lot of others fans. Just because something wasnt as good as it could be or perfect doesnt mean it should be cut out completely rather than just improved or left alone. I'd be fine if they kept the same benefits and drawbacks as OB or MW had. Its not much and most definitely wont ruin your game but it does add to the experience.

Like you said, if the signs were "useless" how can it ruin your game like Todd said?

They actually made sense in Morrowind (which was the first time we saw them). They were in Oblivion, because they were in Morrowind. They had no significance other than minor attributre changes, and a special power. Just because something was there, doesn't mean it should stay; just like how change isn't always a good thing.

Im sure someone will mod them in eventually

Its just a Automatic selection of one ability at char creation.

I dont think it will be too hard to implement...

That sounds much more feasible.

birthsigns didn't actually do that much in the game, all thaat they did was add like 10 points to a certain skill or give you a spell that you will never use later on

I used t choose Atronach despite always being a warrior because the month of that sign was the same month I am actually born in (and obviously we can't choose when we are born). It just happened that the Spell Absorption for the Atronach was wicked awesome.

This, along with all other changes, I have a tempered confidence in Bethesda. By this I mean I am not pleased with the idea right now, but have confidence they have at least thought it thrugh a lot before unleashing this information on a dogmatic audience like us. Though I must admit the perks in place of some skills idea made more sense than either the loss of attributes or birthsigns do.

Imagine it.

You really don't need the game to confirm your birthsign, because it didn't even came up in any way outside your stat screen, neither in Morrowind or Oblivion.


yay, it helps in the beginning. You know what else helps in the beginning? A cheap spell that does nearly the same thing, but you can cast it more than once a day.
I personally tend to forget which one I've picked right after character creation.

A Dragonborn isn't a race.They still have different races with different characteristics.

That's a rather large jump from what he said isn't it? I'm 100% certain Bethesda won't even consider removing racial effects.

You do understand that ONLY mw and ob had them? daggerfall didnt and arena didnt.