It really seems (key word seems) to me people have ta do everything and have a hard time letting go of things like doing lame quests for Preston. Or whatever endless radiant npc they do them for. Me start game. Level how I want for a while and explore and find a home that's NOT Sanctuary. When I eventually feel like it go to Preston and tha gang...lead them to Sanc....do tha little quests there tha chair and whatever and then leave...forever. Preston will ask you ta go to Tenpines or whatever...just don't go. Your OCD wants you to clear out tha quests....we it never ends and will bore you to death and distract you from tha massive amounts of other stuff ta do. If and when you ever get to tha other stuff you are gonna be worn out from doing boring radiant trash and that is your OCD ruining tha game. Your lack of self control not tha games fault.

Make tha game your own. It is tha same way some of us was able to play FO3 and Vegas all tha way till 4 came out. That and mods that added content.

If you're finding tha game boring...how about instead of calling it boring ask all tha people who have fun how they are doing it. Maybe you will learn interesting things.

Comparing a game that has only been out for a few months to another game that was released years ago, has had many patches added, has dlc, developed mods along with the official modding tool.

Good job

I'll say the same to you that I would anyone else who is "disappointed" with F4, STOP WHINING.

Bethesda are listening to fans and they are updating the game as best they can, some patience is required.

I disagree. You can have both. Wizardry 7 did, so did Ultima 7, and really so did Morrowind. I don't think we should say what Bethesda is, but rather what they could be.

alle 3 of those games are very very old

We shouldn't underestimate how much more time and money the games today take to be made.

The 3D environments, the complexity in the engine, the voice acting... everything is so much more complicated than it was 20 years before

That's the main reason why games like Fallout 1 do have more deep dialogue and more freedom when doing quests.

You can't write thousands and thousands lines of text today... you have to record a voice for everything you write, make animations, complicated locations for every single line and decision that you add to the game.

I feel like that's the main reason why games have less depth than the games 20 years ago.

That is true, but they were able to merge complex, detailed gameplay (even more detailed than today) with a radiant rich world. Perhaps, the money isn't there to pull off such a feat anymore, but I don't think it can't hurt to ask and push for it.


A standard has been set already, but marketing tells us the newest game is always better and doing things no other game has done before -- hence this idea that open-world and detail rich gameplay can't coexist; but the truth is it's already been done.


It maybe about money, but it also might have to do with development goals. Maybe a little of both.

To be honest, I was more disappointed in New Vegas, but I don't blame the game, I blame the location. The mojave was not the most exciting of locations...I live in Arizona, and let me tell you, the drive to my work does not look all that different from what you saw in the game.

Agree 100%. The characters and dialogue are unbelievably shallow.

Disagree. TW3 managed both quite well.

that's why TW3 won so much and is getting so hyped by everyone

It was the first modern game that was able to fit so many interesting quests and so much story into an open world.

And you can still see the limitations in there.

They missed out on creating an interesting world you want to explore, by focusing on presenting an interesting story and dialogue.

The combat system suffered as well being very repetitive and not having too many options.

I gotta disagree here. Morrowind does have a great overall open world, but to a point... At most, the towns got a lot of treatment in Morrowind and the unique feel of Morrowind as well got good treatment. However, if you pay close attention to the world of Morrowind... It's very bland, copy-pasted, and boring. It looks amazing and the towns are amazing but beyond that... The world isn't fun to explore and enjoy. Combine that with an awful outdated combat system, Morrowind is very hard to enjoy normally...

Even the dialogue and some other areas are pretty dang bad and copy-pasted (but I won't go into much detail about that).

Morrowind was, without a doubt, a story-driven Elder Scrolls game. It's the story and main NPCs that truly holds Morrowind up. Player-created mods had to slowly fix some of the major issues of the game over the years to really make it a complete experience. And that's the thing, I love Morrowind for it's story and modding community. NOT for it's world or other aspects, which was severely lackluster.

Though, don't get me wrong. Exploring Morrowind was amazing for some time because of how alienated the world was to us... Seeing the strange creatures, the mushroom-trees, and everything was a blast... But once I've started getting De-Ja-Vu feelings over and over again. I started noticing on how simply created the world was and I generally stop caring for exploring Morrowind for the most part and only check out specific areas where Bethesda DID put attention into...

For Skyrim and Fallout 4, Bethesda put complete attention into the open worlds in them. Every single area has something to tell and find, making the entire world very enjoyable as a whole and worthwhile to explore. And that takes A LOT of time to personally go through the entire world, sculpturing it. Compared to random generators and the like.

So, yes. I disagree with ya. Morrowind, to me, is more about the deep story than it is about the open world. Especially without mods to help out the game and give it the attention it deserves.

I agree with this, that's why I was disappointed in how intertwined the main quest is in everything. I found it especially annoying that you have to progress the main quest for certain people to even show up. I prefer a take it or leave main quest that isn't crucial for followers, factions, etc.

They released a world with almost no content but radiant combat missions. They strip out more rpg elements every time to appeal to dumber players.

Comments like these makes me want to tear my hair out. "Dumber players" like what you write represent a smart person. Yes that was insulting and i don't care.

Yeah I represent a gamer from an era of entirely text who is highly educated and has taste. It doesn't help that the industry views us as immature mt dew swilling children.

It is the first Bethesda open world game that has failed to hold my attention long enough to even finish the main quest, so yeah. The biggest issue for me is easily the voiced protagonist, it just keeps driving me away, but I think there are other subtler issues with F4 compared to previous Beth games. A generally greater focus on shooter mechanics, which while not a bad thing to in itself seems to have resulted in less attention on some of the other mechanics, the obviously weak dialogue system and issues around world design, including the lack of towns. To name a few.

I said it at launch and I stick by it now, Fallout 4 is a good game, it's just not a particularly good Bethesda game.

I would say Gothic did it just as well. People simply like open world, and people want a good story. I would wager people actually want strong RPG elements in their games -- people aren't as stupid as the publishers think.


This is one of Fallouts major drawbacks. It seemed to try to make the game more accessible, by doing so they pissed a lot of fans off. Bethesda has always had competition -- for the longest time they sat in the shadow of Might and Magic, Baldurs Gate, and Fallout. And then they truly hit their stride with Oblivion, but now everyone is doing what they're doing, in some ways better, in some ways worse.

Very true, and while open world and good story aren't mutually exclusive they are somewhat problematic. Arguably with current technology it makes sense to focus on one or the other and accept that's going to have an impact. The holy grail is an open dynamic world with a sophisticated procedural generation weaving story and plot together in response to the players actions in the world. But we'll probably have to wait for a few years yet.

3 had plenty of good characters, you just didn't have a lot to do with them, and couldn't travel with them. Three dog, Sarah Lyons, gob, Moriarty, Vance, Sydney, etc.

Fallout 4 seems... oddly plain.


It does everything F3 did, there isn't any one thing I could pin the blame on but it just doesn't have the "feel" of that game despite all the elements of F3 I'd previously attributed as reasons why it's so fun all being there. It's kind of like you get sometimes when a movie gets remade - the remake may not be "bad" in any discernable way, if it lacks the "spirit" or "character" of the original the experience can seem less than satisfying when you start missing that. Fallout 4 lacks the "spirit" or "character" of Fallout 3, almost like it was made by a completely different studio that merely imitated the older game without truly understanding it.

Whoa, buckaroo. I know, opinions and all, but...still. Vance? He was one thing wrong with an entire side quest full of wrong.

When it comes to FO3 characters, I can think of very few worthy of praise. At least, I can think of maybe Rothchild and DLC characters like Ashur and Desmond. Oh, and Sydney. I can agree with that one.

That's the thing - F4 characters are way better and more developed/interesting than F3 ones so they're not to blame. Sims was basically Preston version 1.0 for example. The only two exceptions off the top of my head are Three Dog being replaced by Travis and Moira Brown being replaced by a generic DC scientist who just sends you on literally one fetch quest then becomes unimportant.


So characters generally aren't the problem. Trouble is I reach similar conclusions no matter what I try to blame.

All the memorable characters are in NV. Whoever does the writing for Obsidian is amazing.

It's not plain, as just more of the same.

This latest generation of consoles really didn't wow me. Previous jumps in consoles brought along a major advancement over the previous, this generation just brought along moderate improvements in graphics. Fallout 3 wowed everyone because it was the first 3D "open world" HD game of the series.

When you actually think back to that game, its kind of bleh, in that if you played it now you would be bored to tears.

Well said! - I agree absolutely 100%.


I could not push myself to finish Fallout 4 with only 38 hours invested. In comparison to Fallout 3 where I have played a solid 200+ hours and I am now currently playing back through it again. The experience now is still very special.


Fallout 4 is like Fallout Lite. It lacks that unique atmosphere of dark humor and dark aspects that made previous titles feel like a proper post-apocalyptia

Currently playing through Fallout 3 and vastly enjoying what it offers more than I did with Fallout 4.