I've always been confused on what I should call the province, from the perspective of an Argonian from there. Which would they prefer?

I'd also appreciate if anyone who answers can link me to the source(s) they're using. Thanks.

It has been called the Garbage Heap of Tamriel, to where everything rotten and despoiled eventually flows. Its borderlands and coasts have been ravaged by civilization after civilization, but its heart is inviolate, for so poisonous is its air, ground, and water, its mysteries are secure. Detractors long ago called the southeastern swampland of Tamriel "Black Marsh," but to its admirers, of whom there are a few, it is Argonia. - http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-war-trees-argonia-and-black-marsh



edit: The Saxhleel probably have their own name in thier own tongue, that is untranslatable into human speech.

Hist.

No.

Why not? The Ehlnofey lived in Ehlnofey.

Because with the Ehlonfey, the distinction between the race, the land, and the ideal that they were was indistinct and pretty much the same.

With the Hist, there is a distinction between what they are, what they represent, and where they root in. If the Argonians did that, then it'd be like calling a Church 'God' instead of 'A House of God'.

Now if you're talking about Black Marsh in the Dawn-Era, then yes, go right ahead and call it that. Though you won't find any lizard-men.

Oh, come on, Dagon. They root in Argonia, they represent the People of the Root. Yes, there are rogues, there were rogue Ehlnofey, but there's hardly a distinction between what they are. They're telepaths.



And the Argonians can do this, because they've never been to mass. :teehee: God does not mean god. The anology falls apart. The lick of a Hist god awakens the Hist god, within the Argonian, as leaping into eternity, from the vantage point of Tower, dawns the god within the gazer.


Anyhoo, I'm not supposing this is Quimper's reason.

You are aware, Mehrunes Dagon, that the "Argonians" are already known to call themselves the Hist? The distinction between the lizards and the trees is entirely imposed upon them.

There's a difference between not having individuality like we think of it and being able to conflate what, where and why they are with each other. From what we have so far, whatever mythic significance the Lizard-folk wield, they gain from the Hist. Yes, you can argue that they become more Hist-like when they lick the sap (though I wonder what makes the poison that that one Hist produced for the Blackwood Company), but there remains a difference between Tree and Lizard. From there, we can pretty easily find that there is a difference between Lizard and Argonia and Tree and Argonia.
Nitpicky and unrelated point: It's more accurate to say the People of the Root represent the Hist (hence "of the root"). Though I suppose the difference is negligible in the end.

If I'm remembering correctly, that comes from Redguard and was never expanded upon and while it's not been contradicted since, one would think we would've gotten some hint of that after getting into a somewhat mythically significant Argonian's head for a while. So I'm calling it obsolete. Yes it is convenient for me to do that, shut up.
(Also PGE1 ain't the most reliable source about these sorts of things.)

Okay, well I think I'll start calling it Argonia then. Thanks guys.

Argonia is the elven name.

Well I don't see a better alternative, especially considering calling the province "Hist" would be unnecessarily confusing for most people unless I made it clear prior to calling it that that I was talking about the province, not the race.

The point remains: "Argonia" and "Black Marsh" are equally hegemonic names.

:shrug:

I thought beginning a topic was redundant, with this so close to the surface. This bit about the Eye of Argonia was lifted from the Chain Mail section of my Redgaurd manual:

All we can say is that it's a priceless gem that also serves as a key to the Lost City of Black Marsh.


So, what do you think about the Eye and the City? Sounds like the Chim-el Adabal... [The third eye is] a sensory structure capable of light reception, located on the dorsal side of the diencephalon in various reptiles. Also called pineal eye.

I'd rather the Eye wasn't associated with the Chim-el Adabal. Towers and stones are of Elnhofey not Hist. "Lost City of Black Marsh" makes med think of "Tsaesci is snake palace".

"key to the lost city of Black Marsh."
Key as in puzzle-key or key to a cipher... a translator? City as in realm? Black Marsh as in Hist? It's still to elven though, but then again who says the Eye was made by the inhabitants of Black Marsh?

I was thinking along the line of third eye. The Eye of Argonia perceives the "all around us," the Lost City.


Then do you think the city is foreign?

No, there isn't. When the twelve worlds shattered and the two survived, all that was left was the Ehlnofey and the Hist. The Ehlnofey became Men, Mer, Earthbones, etc., but the Hist remained Hist.

That sounds about right, and aligns well with the key as a translator of sorts.



I think the Eye is foreign. As for the city, I have two ideas:
1: It's the city of the Hist, that is Black Marsh as they perceive it.
2: It's part of a babbelfish-embassy from the war with the trees.

The latter doesn't tread on the mundane explanation (a key that gives acess to some exotic ruins in the swamp).