I have a variety of questions regarding Black Marsh / Argonians during the 4E.

So, if I'm not mistaken, I understand that after the Red Volcano erupted, the Argonians invaded southern Morrowind - but what happened after, specifically? After the invasion, did a large handful of Argonians establish themselves inside of southern Morrowind itself? Or did the invading Argonians simply ransack southern Morrowind and return to Black Marsh?

Also, how was Black Marsh affected by the events of Umbriel? Was Black Marsh simply decimated due the floating island? And if so, what of Black Marsh now? Or did Umbriel not harm Black Marsh as much as we thought? Although if Black Marsh was in fact somewhat destroyed by Umbriel, why wouldn't the Aldmeri Dominion take advantage of the situation and invade Black Marsh?

I feel as though the events of Umbriel are totally lost throughout Skyrim - not even a single book. Nor do any Argonians throughout the land of Skyrim mention the state of their homeland. I know many situations and events are simply not answered - but if not explained, what do you think are the most justifiable conclusions - what of Black Marsh now?

IIRc it is said the Argonians didn't even try to colonize or even rule the lands they captured in Morrowind.

They just took it over and then stood around.

I am just speculating but, umbriel was going in a straight line directly to morrowind. It would have destroyed everything in its immediate path, not the entire country. Looking at a map of Black Marsh, if it went in a line straight north from Lilmoth it would have passed the major cities. According to the timeline http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fourth-era Umbriel arrived in 4E 43 and the events in Skyrim start almost 150 years later, so it makes sense that this would be a distant memory to most argonians and they would have rebuilt quite a bit since then. I don't know the state of Morrowind, wish there was more in-depth info about that.

The destruction of Morrowind during the Red Year, and the Argonian Invasion needed to happen IMO.


The Neravarine still has yet to fulfill his final task as I recall no instance of him, as the Seven visions say,
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Seven_Visions
one destiny
He speaks the law for Veloth's people.
He speaks for their land, and names them great.


I always personally hoped he would return and make Morrowind awesome again.

We know that Umbriel's armies can break off and kill things away from the island, and we know that the rogue Hist of Lilmoth commanded "assimilated" Argonians to run under the island and become zombies. My guess is that the current Black Marsh is composed almost entirely of native, non-imperialized Argonians living away from the major cities. There's not much in Black Marsh for the Thalmor to want, and the Oblivion Crisis proved that they can be formidable opponents, so I don't think the Dominion was really interested in having BM as a territory.

IIRC, the Argonians only annexed disputed territory in southern Morrowind. As for the rest of Morrowind, they basically made no effort to rule, rebuild or colonize. They came in, ransacked the place, murdered a lot of Dunmer, and proceeded to occupy most of Morrowind south of Red Mountain in terms of latitude.


The only part of Black Marsh that suffered heavily because of Umbriel was Lilmoth, the home of the An-Xileel who are presently the ruling faction in Black Marsh. The Aldmeri Dominion did in fact help provoke the Argonians into leaving the Empire, but the Thalmor quickly lost control and influence, turning Black Marsh into the closest thing in Tamriel that could be considered a "rogue state".


To be fair, Umbriel was roughly 160 years prior to the events of Skyrim. Far more historically and culturally significant events occured since then. We also have to consider that the places Umbriel affected the most (Morrowind and Black Marsh) are either destroyed (Morrowind) or shrouded in mystery (Black Marsh).

As for a best guess as to current affairs in Black Marsh, the An-Xileel are likely still in charge but will have been weakened and are likely being challenged for power in the relatively peaceful times in Black Marsh. Lilmoth has likely been rebuilt in some fashion and the only conflict Argonians face would likely be in the form of Dunmer rebels in Morrowind; Black Marsh itself is likely incredibly peaceful and the most serious conflict would likely be a political one which would not concern Argonians abroad.

Well, not really a rogue state, as they have no plans or intent, historically, to go farther than what they see as Black Marsh, which was contested territory between Morrowind and Black Marsh. Black Marsh also has very little care of the outside world, and never were aggressive with anyone, unless they were deemed a threat.

Also, I bet the Saxhleel were going to invade Morrowind to begin with, but probably used the Thalmor and quickly dispose of them. Of course, the author could just be having biased opinion and just wanted to put a blame on the Thalmor for what happened between Black Marsh and Morrowind.

Ah, true, I never considered how far Skyrim is to the actual places affected the most by Umbriel. Although Umbriel did at one point sit atop the White Gold Tower - I'd presume there'd be at least a book written on that specific event, or at least vague rumors.

A book, if it was to be written would likely to have been written by an Imperial. Considering the Empire is in such a mess it most likely a) hasn't been written or found its way up to Skyrim. But it is interesting that word of mouth news either hols no importance at all, or wasn't carried north,

Or was simply forgotten after a 160 or so years. More important things are happening right now.

I often forget the events between Daggerfall and Oblivion are a mere thirty years or so - while Oblivion and Skyrim are seperated by more than one-hundred fifty years. I suppose a lot could be simply forgotten, or misinterpreted.

160 years is a lot, no one speaks of the Oblivion crysis. A book would have been a cool addition and would hush all those claims, though.

I'd like to imagine that the canonical Nerevarine led his loyal Ashlanders eastward to avoid the Red Year and during the time from TESIV to TESV, they carved a new homeland from the Akavir, becoming awesome nomadic warriors in the process.

Veloths people settled in Morrowind. The Nerevarine is the leader of all people in Morrowind, Ashlander and House member alike. Hortator and Nerevarine. It could very well be what your Nerevarine did, but the prophecy itself has not yet been completed.

(Which is odd cause the biggest part of the prophecy was done in less then a year...)

With the way its going it seems Bethesda just tossed out the last part in order to keep The Nerevarine mysterious.

He is immortal, in that he cant die of age or disease, and he did kill gods so it seems unlikely he got killed, so he could come back from Akavir still.

I don't think we'll ever know about the Neverarine, Beth doesn't seem to like going into detail about previous PCs and iirc it was said somewhere that they leave it open-ended so the player can fill in the blanks (because after all, he's our/your player)?

As for Argonians, I'd love to get to know more about The Hist. Feels (to me) very much like an enigma, like the Tom Bombadil of the Elder Scrolls series.

They didn't exactly leave it open ended when Morrowind suffered from destruction after destruction and wars... My Nerevarine personally killed Helseth right after Almalexia. Still in Oblivion Helseth suddenly outlawed slavery. They make some decisions, some even bigger then others, as i'm pretty sure that no matter what my Nerevarine would have fought the Argonian invasion and would have tried to prevent the fall of the moon...

Still you're right, we'll never get a "canon" ending for what happened to any of our player characters.

Except for the Champion of Cyrodiil: (s)he's Sheogorath now.

Beth doesn't and can't account for every single possibility. They acknowledge that the hero finished the main quest, and that the faction quests were done (though not necessarily by the same hero) - everything else is left to your interpretation. Killing Helseth wasn't in any of the quests, hence he remains alive. Killing Vivec, on the other hand, was a viable path through the main quest, so his fate is uncertain.

Right except for the CoC... Besides him/her we don't know anything, I was just trying to say that the path of the Nerevarine leaving and what's happening to Morrowind now, does not mean that Beth leaves what happened in Morrowind after the events of the game totally up to your interpretation, they still make things happen whether your character would have let it happen or not.