Black-screen CTDs with previously flawless FCOM install : IV

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:49 pm

Hi, I took a break from Oblivion for about 4 months, and have just now returned to finish tweaking an FCOM install before I begin to actually play the game. 4 months ago, I had reached a point where I had a flawless FCOM install with about 200 mods in total (inc. Better Cities, RBP, LAME, etc.). Having returned after 4 months, the first thing I did was check on updates. Naturally, about a dozen had newer versions - namely Wyre Bash/Python, Better Cities, BOSS, Apachii Goddess Store, AWLS, AFK-Weye, & All Natural. My problem now is that I haven't even finished with what was once a flawless install, and I'm already getting nasty crashes and extreme slowdown. The only conclusion I can come to at this point is that it has something to do with a conflict between FCOM and the newer versions of some of the mods, maybe particularly Better Cities (since 90% of my crashes seem to happen in either B&M Bravil or the IC Market District). Also, a lot of my crashes are simply black-screen CTDs, and as such weOCPS hasn't been able to log anything. I also don't understand the slowdown issues - it was running a lot faster with RAEVWD and anti-aliasing activated (forced, via video card) 4 months ago. I'm using Streamline and Oblivion Stutter Remover, and I have Streamline's 'Streamsmooth' and 'Streamsight' functions disabled (as was recommended to use it with OSR). I had these features disabled on my older install as well, though. The only mod I'm running that BOSS doesn't recognize is 'Imperial City Densified - Elven Gardens', but I've been using that mod forever and it's never given me any problems. BOSS has given me no alerts, either, and as far as I know everything should be running smoothly. Does anyone know of any conflicts between FCOM and the newer versions of certain mods, particularly Better Cities? Thanks in advance.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Jog_X_Mod.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.9.5]03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]09  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0A  Armamentarium.esm0B  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0C  Better Cities Resources.esm0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0E  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]0F  DLCShiveringIsles.esp10  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]11  Better Cities .esp12  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp14  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp15  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp16  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]17  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]18  Fran Armor Add-on.esp19  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp1A  LoadingScreens.esp1B  LoadingScreensAddOn.esp1C  LoadingScreensSI.esp1D  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]1E  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]1F  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]20  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp++  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.1]21  Better Bell Sounds.esp22  AmbientTownSounds.esp23  WindowLightingSystem.esp24  AliveWaters.esp25  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp26  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp27  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp28  CityLights - ImperialCity.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]29  KF Chapel Shop.esp2A  OAVO - Sound.esp2B  Crowded Cities 15.esp2C  Crowded Roads.esp  [Version 2.0]2D  DLCHorseArmor.esp2E  DLCOrrery.esp2F  DLCVileLair.esp30  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp31  DLCSpellTomes.esp32  Thieves Arsenal.esp33  DLCThievesDen.esp34  ExnemRuneskulls.esp++  FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]36  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]37  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]38  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp39  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3A  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3B  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp3C  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]3D  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp3E  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp3F  OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp40  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]41  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]42  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]43  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]44  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]45  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]46  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]47  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_ArcheryArmamentarium.esp  [Version 2]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp49  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]4A  00RBScribeSupplies Intensive.esp4B  300 Regal Imperial City 2.esp4C  Anvil_MorningGloryBetterCities_Mixed.esp4D  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]4E  Delivery Job - BC.esp4F  Elven_Gardens_Apartment.esp50  Extended Imperial City Version 1.0.esp51  Extended Chorrol.esp52  Extended Skingrad.esp53  Insanity's Pet Shop.esp54  Mag1cWind0w_The_Imperial_Water.esp55  MTCDarelothsHouse.esp56  Street Market.esp57  thievery.esp58  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp59  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp5A  za_bankmod.esp5B  24HrArenaAliveV2.esp5C  24HrArenaAliveV2Towers.esp5D  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp5E  DLCfrostcrag.esp5F  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp60  Knights.esp61  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.0.COBL]62  Blood&Mud.esp63  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]64  MTCThievesGrottoV4.1.esp++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]65  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]66  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]67  Enhanced Vegetation [150%].esp68  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp69  Stealth Entrances v1.esp6A  immersive_caves_auto.esp6B  Dark Dungeons.esp6C  Dark Dungeons -  SI.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp  [Version 0.76]6D  zzICD - Elven Gardens.esp6E  Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp6F  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp70  Better Cities - Thievery.esp71  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp72  Better Imperial City.esp73  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp74  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]++  Real Lava 1.3.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]75  Bashed Patch, 0.esp76  Streamline 3.1.esp

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:50 pm

++ Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp [Version 0.1] <-- SI additions already included in HDMI version
34 ExnemRuneskulls.esp <-- Use MMM Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO instead. These resources have been merged into MMM 3.7
++ FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp [Version 0.9.9]
6C Dark Dungeons - SI.esp <-- Includes Tamriel and SI changes. Remove the other plugin.

Remove WeOCPs

2C Crowded Roads.esp [Version 2.0] <-- replace with Crowded Roads Revisited

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:20 pm

Thanks, I did everything you said. The crashes seem to have let up, but I'm a little confused - is weOCPS unstable or something? Back when I was modding up my game like crazy, everyone was raving about how essential it was for a heavily-modded game. Were there severe bug reports or anything in the last 4 months or so?

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:59 am

I'm a little confused - is weOCPS unstable or something? Back when I was modding up my game like crazy, everyone was raving about how essential it was for a heavily-modded game. Were there severe bug reports or anything in the last 4 months or so?

Not sure, to be honest. But I get the impression that it can only really (maybe) stave off disaster, and even then, perhaps for a little while at best...?

The theory could be, therefore, that it's better to work on an actually stable setup, than to have a half-finished "prop-me-up" saving you occasionally from flaws that it does nothing to fix.

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:46 pm

Aw man, yet another "It's all FCOM's fault" thread.

There's around six of these in the first four pages of the forum.
Known incompatibilities and patches if applicable can be found http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:FCOM
Really, FCOM gets an unjustified bad reputation because of threads like this one and others in the same vein.

When installed correctly the mod works perfectly and the latest version is ultra stable.

Please ensure it is an FCOM related issue before making a topic pointing blame, and if it is then take your problem to the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1103610-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:39 pm

I'm using Streamline and Oblivion Stutter Remover, and I have Streamline's 'Streamsmooth' and 'Streamsight' functions disabled (as was recommended to use it with OSR).

Where is this recommended? Can't see how Streamsight can interfere with OSR, but perhaps I'm missing something.

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:56 pm

++ Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp [Version 0.1] <-- SI additions already included in HDMI version
34 ExnemRuneskulls.esp <-- Use MMM Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO instead. These resources have been merged into MMM 3.7
++ FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp [Version 0.9.9]
6C Dark Dungeons - SI.esp <-- Includes Tamriel and SI changes. Remove the other plugin.

Remove WeOCPs

2C Crowded Roads.esp [Version 2.0] <-- replace with Crowded Roads Revisited

Sorry to crowd the thread, but when you say remove Exnemruneskulls should I remove both: 34 ExnemRuneskulls.esp and ++ FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp or just one of them.

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:58 pm

Sorry to crowd the thread, but when you say remove Exnemruneskulls should I remove both: 34 ExnemRuneskulls.esp and ++ FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp or just one of them.

You have to remove both. The Exnem Runeskulls ESP is part of the mod. You need to uninstall the entire mod. That removes the plugin, and that FCOM patch depends on that plugin, so it has to go as well.

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:21 pm

Hey, sorry to revive a dead thread, but I just now had the time to check it again. Shikishima, I wasn't pointing fingers at FCOM, because, by itself, it is ultra-stable. I simply put that in the title to describe my setup - those with zero experience with FCOM would have likely not been all that helpful. I was actually going to post in the actual FCOM thread, but it's locked. Is there a new thread? I clicked the new thread link at the end of the closed one, but it just links me back to the closed thread. And I do refer to the compatibility/patch guide often, although I'm not sure how accurate it is, because it states that TIE runs fine with FCOM, whereas the official FCOM people told me a few months back that no current version of TIE worked. And the reason I assumed it was an FCOM conflict is because I've used all of these mods together on a previous non-FCOM install, and there was no trouble. Adding FCOM to the mix is a big deal, and while it is stable, certain things can go haywire fast.

In regards to the help I received with this thread initially, I'm still not quite sure why it worked. I'd used the same ingredients on a previous install, and weOCPS never gave me any problems, nor did Exnem's Runeskulls, Crowded Roads Revamped, etc. This is confusing, because none of these things are listed in the FCOM compatibility guide as being problematic, and I couldn't find any other source where they were cited as unusable.

» Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:46 pm

Corepc is currently working on a version that will work with FCOM - TIE4Mods Reborn Modular. You can probably find the WIP thread linked in his signature or through the search function.
We'll have to amend the current TIE information on the wiki page. Thanks for pointing it out.

The current FCOM thread is http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1105942-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/