I think I've played/seen more black female protagonists then gingers.

Sure thing. Anytime you want to land on planet earth, we're ready for you.

By making them women who happen to be black. A lot of times a black person is in a game they're a stereotype of a rough and tumble from the hood, a rap or hip hop head thumping type or a walking, talking blacksploitation film character. They need to focus less on trying to make them a character that specifically appeals to preconceived notions on what a black person might like and just make them a normal person who just happens to have darker skin.

I honestly hate the "why aren't I represented" mentality. So one type of person is the main character in a video game more than another. Big fat deal.


Political Correctness is stupid beyond belief. It's finally starting to die down a bit, and if it goes away I have to say good riddance.


Sorry for ten rant. I really hate it when people feel a sense of entitlement, like they expect other people do conform to how they feel.

Ok, seriously. I need a Like button for this

But then again I don′t want that system. Hmm....

You should have seen the internet reactions to GTA San Andreas when it was unveiled. Wasn't pretty. The "backlash" against the protagonist of the new Mafia felt like a faint echo of that sort of attitude. I think that there is definitely still this undercurrent that instinctively pushes back against anything that isn't the "default", ie white male. The only way the industry and culture at large can move on from that is by actively fostering alternatives.

On a related note I think it was a mistake of Bethesda to start pushing a male nord physical avatar for Skyrim's marketing and promo art. The player could be anything from a male breton or redguard to a female orc or argonian. And I think the marketing style went completely opposite of that philosophy.

But the game is in Skyrim, home of the Nords. Why is it wrong to have a native from that province in the promos? I bet that if the next game is in Hammerfell we′ll see a Redguard in the promos, and rightfully so.

Bethesda could have easily run multiple commercials with different characters, and highlighted the fact that it is, ultimately, the player's story that is being told. That way they could have had male / female Nords, Redguards, etc. They did it for FO4 (well, sorta) with the male / female Sole Survivor, so obviously they are aware that women do in fact play their games.

So you're upset that Bethesda didn't demonstrate the series' option to choose your race and gender prior to the game's release?

The previous games always show the main race from the province. Nord for Skyrim, Imperial for Oblivion and Dunmer for Morrowind.

Anything that's not for the straight white male is considered pandering if you hear the complains.

Upset? No. It just makes sense to market to different demographics. All the Skyrim commercials featured a male Nord in them - never a female character or any other race.

I'm not even sure there were TV commercials for Morrowind. And the only ones for Oblivion I could find didn't highlight the character race at all. Now, Skyrim definitely highlighted Nords. Not that anyone could tell the difference between Imperials and Nords, of course.

There were some trailers I think? Unless I'm remembering something else, which is more than possible.

The character that tends to be shown in Oblivion is an Imperial, but could pass for a Nord. http://theologygaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/The-Elder-Scrolls-IV-Oblivion-Game-of-the-Year-3.jpg.

Heh, Nords are just taller Imperials in Skyrim anyway.

I can understand the female thing, but most of the Tamrielic races don't translate to real-life races. There's not much of a merrish or beast race demographic out there to market to.

In Skyrim at least, Imperials seem to have the most varied skin complexion of the four mannish races.

Well yeah. Of course they do. People like what they relate to. I don't play as women in any games I play. It does not feel right for me. People like to roleplay. Hence I choose a tall white, male character. It's the same with play styles. Some people prefer shooters. Some people prefer fantasy rpg. It's what their personality relates to. Sometimes I don't mind it. IE Playing an Italian American in Mafia, or playing as an American cowboy. But, especially in RPGs where I have a choice I will choose the European/English option. IE Nord/Imperial in TES. I play mainly with Nords and occassionally with elves. Why do I like the elves? Because they are tall like me which I relate too. Same reason I make the characters have the same colour hair to me etc.

Same thing with being in the North of the UK. We are pretty much never represented in popular entertainment. Yet we don't whinge all the time that we aren't represented. If you want a certain demographic represented in gaming try and make gaming more popular in that demographic. No one is going to add features that so few people are going to use.

I can imagine someone looking at the classic image of that guy standing on the cliff in Skyrim and thinking "how dare they place someone of that gender and skin color in a painting!!!!!!!!!!!"


Worrying about who is represented in a video game. I really cannot think of anything that more states the expression "First World Problems".

The difference between Skyrim and Oblivion/Morrowind is that it really, really focused on having a poster-boy for the protagonist unlike the previous two. Morrowind hardly ever showed a representation of the PC, and when it did it did all ten races. Oblivion barely showed the representation of the PC. Skyrim on the other hand really pushed the Dragonborn image and everything. When it came to actual gameplay, at the very least they did show different permutations of the PC, even in Skyrim. But well, advertising and all.

Uh...so about those underlined sections...are you seeing the chicken/egg situation here? The fact that it's even an issue must tell you something about the actual demographics. (Hint: it isn't as few as you might think)

On the other hand, I'd much rather have nothing over stereotypes/flat characters/characters made to fill a "quota."

Also a nitpick:

Wouldn't the obvious choice be Bretons considering the...romantic representation of Medieval Europe they have?

I'd always found the Bretons the best match for me personally (I'm also northern English). But I guess it depends on the person as much as their locale...

That's what I meant. And other companies have already made cool solutions for games where you have some agency over who you want to play as. I remember there were 3 different box arts for Terran, Protoss and Zerg for Starcraft 1. EA did the same with C&C Generals and Red Alert 3. They understand that for these types of games it doesn't really make sense to have a "default" in the promotional material. Bethesda doesn't do this stuff for their actual game box art though. Not yet at any rate. I just think that this kind of safe by the numbers marketing style feels very at odds with the design philosophy of these games.

This also makes me remember how the publisher insisted on having a super generic box art of Booker alone in an archetypical gun over shoulder pose for Bioshock Infinite...

Switchable character/faction box art isn't really an option for Bethesda because their box art tends to be minimalistic, usually portraying nothing more than a symbol. And I wouldn't want it any other way.

Yeah, they need to quit stalking us. Stalk the black ladies for a bit, developers. I'm cool over here. No, seriously, Todd Howard, get out of my fridge with your camera.


But seriously, for a company whose tagline is: "Be whatever you want, go wherever you want, do whatever you want", it's kind of odd that 99% of the time, their trailer character is a white dude with brown/black hair. I mean, sheesh Bethesda, would it kill ya to release some screen shots of the MC as other races and as ladies? If I didn't know anything about your company, and there was a time I didn't, I would've thought you could ONLY play as white dudes with brown/black hair.


The tagline is: “Be whatever you want to be, go wherever you want to go, do whatever you want to do”


Trailers show: “You as a white guy killing things and/or walking around in random landscapes”


?Por que?

Then let me enlighten you. There's this thing most of the populace has access to. It's called Google. All you needed to do is search "can I play as any race in Fallout 4?" and you would have your answer. That simple. Bethesda didn't need to hold your hand or direct a class on diversity - the answer was right in front of you all along.

That's not really his point, I think. Yes, you can play whatever race you want in Fallout 4. But the commercials - all of them, as far as I can see - feature a white male or white female protagonist. It would have been trivial to change the race of the character displayed in the commercials. And of course there's the issue of Bethesda forcing the player character to be in a heterosixual marriage.

What does it matter what the skin color of someone is in a commercial? People get so wrapped up in a person's skin color.


Fallout 4's creators had every right to make the story line in their game the way they saw fit. And they chose to have a straight marriage. It's their product and their creation. They are under no obligation to cater to anyone. And why should they? If I make a story I'll make it the way I want to. Same with Bethesda.

Not to mention more commercials = more money having to be spent advertising. It's not cheap.

I can't wait for TES Elsweyr. They will be forced to put a picture of a sixy cat-man in the marketing, and this will draw in all the furries and TES fandom will never be quite the same again.