Luagar2 pretty much explained it for me.

You don't get one without the other. The Blades seek the Dragonborn because the Dragonborn is the ultimate dragon-slayer, and the Blades fight dragons. This was their original reason for becoming the Dragonguard to the Reman Emperors, and later the Septims. The Emperors are no longer Dragonborn, therefore, the Blades no longer serve the Emperors, and their purpose has turned back to finding the Dragonborn again. Now we have dragons. Note that Delphine is actively investigating this before anyone has any idea whatsoever that a Dragonborn exists. If the Dragonborn never appeared, presumably she would have done something to try and fight the dragons herself. You can't say that the Blades MUST follow the Dragonborn, while at the same time deriding the entire reason they flocked to the Dragonborn in the first place as an outdated job description. It goes hand in hand.

If the Dragonborn refuses to slay one of the biggest, baddest dragons that there ever was, on the argument that said dragon has turned over a new leaf, ignoring the call to justice UPON WHICH THE BLADES WERE FOUNDED, then of course the Blades, having returned to their original roots, are going to say 'sorry, that's not on with us'. The Blades don't have to slavishly follow everything the Dragonborn tells them/wants them to do, they have ignored the orders of a Dragonborn in the past when they felt he was wrong. In their view, you're betraying your entire purpose. That they still help you after that, even a little, is saying something. And neither one of them seem remotely happy about the whole 'our oaths prevent us from aiding you' matter.

Now, whether or not this is stupid or ignorant or shortsighted (I'm perfectly amiable to all three options) is a matter of opinion, of course.

Although, none of it actually explains why Esbern's okay, but Delphine isn't. Esbern's the one who lays down the ultimatum, after all.

Esbern's argument: It doesn't matter if he turned to the good guys side. What matters is that he slaughtered thousands of people under Alduin, and he must be punished for this. I need to talk to him again to be sure, but he doesn't seem to think Paarhturnaax is evil anymore. It's just justice.

Delphine: He betrayed Alduin, so he might betray us as well.

Except that's not why the Blades seek the Dragonborn, they don't want a Dragonborn because the Dragonborn kills dragons and the Blades are dragonkillers. They seek the Dragonborn because the Blades exist to serve the Dragonborn, not to kill dragons, even from before their inception. As even the original Akaviri state: "we were not hunting, we have been searching, for you" upon which point they knelt and swore thier lives to the Dragonborn.

As it goes on to say

"There are those that say the Blades still exist around us, in hiding from the Thalmor. Waiting as they have done time and time again, for a Dragonborn to return. For one to protect, for one to guide them."

They're not waiting on you so you can kill dragons, they're waiting on you so that they can protect you, and so that you can guide them. And what do they do when you - the one who they've sworn their lives to - try and guide them in a direction they don't like? They tell you to eat [censored] and die or come back when you, their leader, are willing to bow to the whims of your servants.

Again, [censored] those guys.

That same book (I believe) also talks about how the Blades refused a Dragonborn Emperor's orders because they didn't agree with them.

I'm not surprised by people being angry at the Blades (though the sheer level of vitriol is pretty eyebrow raising). For the record, I have not, and probably never will in my games, kill Parthurnaax. But the Blades do not follow the Dragonborn unquestioningly. In this case, the Dragonborn's going against what they clearly believe is an extremely important thing. I don't agree with them, but it's not like Esbern and Delphine don't have a pretty good point.

I mean, for a moment there, at the end of the game, when Parthurnaax flew off talking about how the dragons WOULD hear him now (with the implication of 'or else'), I wondered if I hadn't been completely hoodwinked by a very patient, very smooth talking schemer. A few thousand years is a very long time to mortals, but Parthurnaax isn't mortal. He's a child of the Dragon God of Time. Imagine if he really had been biding his time until his people returned, Alduin was overthrown, and he could then seize power. All those dragons waiting for you when you came out of Sovngarde could have proceeded to throw you off the top of the Throat of the World with the biggest FUS ROH DAH ever.

Didn't happen. Could have happened. I was willing to wait and see if it did. The Blades aren't/weren't, and I find that pretty understandable.

It's not in that book that they defy a dragonborn, if they ever do, in a quick survey of the main texts referencing the Blades I found no such reference. A source would be nice if that's going to be the basis for your argument.

That said, my points still stand. Not only do my points stand but you seem to be mistaking the issue. The issue isn't that we want the Blades to follow our orders blindly or agree with everything we do. The issue is that they want us to follow all of their orders without question - they want absolute service, from their leader, or else they tell you to blow off.

Their existence revolves around you and yet in order for them to uphold their own sworn oaths they ask you to potentially act against your conscience. They swore an oath to you, that should be their concern. I'm not asking them to serve me, they swore to it of their own volition, and now that they've sworn their lives to me they want to force me to earn that service by having me kill another of my allies - this is simply ludacris.

Edit: Oops, almost forgot

"[censored] those guys."

If you want to get down to it, their original purpose was not slaying dragons, it was protecting against the threat the dragons posed. Dragonguard - dragon guard - guard from dragons. It just so happened that the most efficient way to guard against the threat of dragons at the time was to kill them. If a more peaceful way to deal with the threat showed itself, however, them sticking to their "kill them all" attitude makes them look like genocidal maniacs, which ultimately makes them worse than the dragons.

What gets me is that you could be perfectly willing to kill the dragons that can't be pacified, and you could be perfectly willing to kill any dragon that goes against an oath of peace (including Paarthurnax himself, if it comes down to it). But they don't care about that in the least, and demand you murder one specific dragon that shows no sign of being a future threat, has not been a threat for thousands of years, and has actively helped to save mankind on multiple occasions (newsflash Blades, if it wasn't for this specific dragon, none of you would be in a position to demand his death), and has been passively helping mankind the whole time by keeping knowledge and use of The Voice alive among them. Parth has given mankind a weapon necessary to protect themselves against dragon oppression and wants to usher in an era of peaceful co-existence, and the Blades aren't willing to give him a chance at your behest, even if it means they lose the all-important Dragonborn. They don't consider any solution that doesn't end in dragon genocide.

I'll have a look for it next time I'm in-game. I could have sworn it was in the same book describing how the Akaviri said they were looking for the Dragonborn, but I only read it once. It's a brief passage that describes how the Blades of an area were given orders from the then-Emperor to attack the locals for some sort of political reason, and they outright refused, and their superior supported them.

I'm not sure how I'm mistaking the issue. Your contention is that the Blades' very existence is to follow, guard, and take guidance from the Dragonborn, regardless of the Dragonborn's choices, and so choosing NOT to support/follow the Dragonborn is a betrayal of the same oaths that they claim bind them to the destruction of Parthurnaax. My contention is that the Blades are not bound to follow the Dragonborn if the Dragonborn is going against their very principles.

Keep in mind, they've only just met you too. They know NOTHING about you, other than you are Dragonborn and are pretty good at the whole dragon killing business. They want you to kill someone they view as, essentially, dragon-Hitler; a horrific, genocidal war criminal who committed crimes so terrible that his name (which means something akin to Cruel Tyrant) and his crimes have survived in memory for thousands and thousands of years. He has never had to face any kind of consequences for those crimes, and all of the good that he has done does not, in their minds, erase all of the terrible things that he did before, or that he might do in the future. You refuse because he's helping you and he's coming off as a nice guy. The argument is that they should then just get over this little trifle and go along with you anyway, because you're the Dragonborn.

Let's have a hypothetical. What if Martin Septim had turned out to be the worst possible candidate for Emperor ever? What if he bought into Mankar Camoran's whole 'let's let daedra overrun the world and destroy everything' plan? Should the Blades then have, because they are sworn to the Dragonborn, not only supported Martin in this, but helped him? Let's be less extreme: let's say Martin Septim survives the Oblivion Crisis to become Emperor, and it turns out he's a mad tyrant who subjugates the people and orders mass 'cleansings' and other such unpleasantness. Should the Blades then not only support him but carry out his whims in this?

Obviously, these are extremes. Your Dragonborn may be the pinnacle of rightness and champion of (most) justice. Of course, your Dragonborn could also be the Listener for the Dark Brotherhood and frequently commit bloody murders for Daedric princes. Your Dragonborn might have played toady to the Thalmor in Markarth by sending a Talos worshipper off to be tortured and killed. They don't know.

I mean, the worst the Blades do is say 'sorry, we're not helping you anymore'. (And then they still help you). Judging by reactions on the forums, most PCs then want to turn around and murder them horribly, because 'I AM THE DRAGONBORN RAH, YOU MUST DO AS I SAY'. I'm not sure this proves them wrong, really. You're (the general you, not you personally) not willing to kill a former mass murderer/genocidal maniac turned repentent dragon-monk, but two stubborn old people (who presumably, being Blades, did quite a bit of good before the Thalmor started witch hunting them) that regretfully say they can't help you unless you do are perfectly reasonable targets for sudden violence.

Saying 'screw you guys, I'm out' is a perfectly reasonable reaction to being forced into this choice. Railing against how their body bits can't be spattered about their temple is less so. :tongue:

Edit: Much shorter version: They want you to act against your conscience, but you, in turn, seem to be expecting them to act against theirs.

Except that's not my contention. My contention is not that they must follow me regardless of my choices, not that I want them to follow me blindly, and not that I want absolute service. My contention is they want me to offer them absolute service; that they want their leader, their reason for existing, to bow to their whims. They give the Dragonborn no say in the matter, and that's really the kicker, that they don't even want your guidance - they demand unwavering service. They don't want your guidance, even though your guidance is their whole reason for being there. They've waited 200 years in hiding for you to emerge and then after you save the world they turn their back on you without even bothering to hear you out.

And of course, yes, 'kill teh draguns!' is not their purpose; their purpose is to serve me, that I won't personally kill a dragon should have no sway over that service.

But again, it's not just asking their leader to bow to their shortsighted whims, it's not just the lack of service to the individual they've sworn their lives to, it's that they let a secondary goal preclude their primary one. Dragon killing is not why they're here, I am. Without me they're not even Blades, they're just two folks who really have a thing against dragons. They're clearly biased above their vows as Blades.

It's not my job, or theirs, to kill dragons. Therefore that I won't kill this particular dragon should not affect their service, especially in light of their vows.

By the end of the Main Quest I've essentially been to Mordor and back with them. That they don't know you after you've just saved the world with them is simply absurd. Again, after you just saved the world they have the gall to reject your guidance [keeping in mind that they're "waiting for a Dragonborn to return, for one to protect, for one to guide them."] and demand you bow to their dragon-hating whims.

These are not only extremes, but they are irrelevant. This is not a case of your actively committing some atrocity, it's not that 'YOU MUST DO AS I SAY', we're not asking them to do anything they don't want to. They're the ones asking this of us. That they're asking this of their leader, the guy who is essentially their messiah who they've been waiting 200 years for, who they've sworn their lives to protect and obey, who has personally made their existence as a faction possible, is simply the giant cherry on top of why everybody wants to shove a sword through their faces.

I'm not asking them to act against their conscience, I'm just refusing to act against mine. I'm not asking them to serve me while I commit atrocities. I'm not actively asking them to do anything, apart from not be douches who turn their backs on the guy they've sworn their life to just because he refused to do something and they got all pouty about it.

It doesn't even have to be that you're on Paarth's side. Maybe I'm not on Paarth's side, maybe I'm just tired of killing 'effing dragons. Maybe I want to pursue other goals, and here they are telling me to [censored] off because I won't personally complete their dragon genocide.

Last but not least, "[censored] those guys."

And that's the thing, the Dragonborn isn't going against their principles. The dragonborn is full-on to protect mankind from the dragons, and the only thing refused is a demand to kill one specific dragon that shows no sign of being a threat. It's also not like you wouldn't kill him if he did become a threat, either. The Blades simply don't care that you've killed dozens of dragons, will be killing dozens more, and will kill any more that show themselves to be a threat at any time. Requesting Paarthurnax's death out of fear or some sense of justice is one thing, but demanding the head a long-reformed, long-peaceful dragon that has helped mankind more than anyone next to the gods themselves, without even considering your point of view on the matter, is way out of line, IMO.

I, as dragonborn, have no intention of letting dragons threaten mankind. I will kill dozens of dragons, hundreds, thousands if I have to without reservation. However, that does not mean murder and genocide is the answer. If the threat can equally be stopped by broaching peace, then by Kyne, give it a chance. For the Blades to turn their backs on me because of that... [censored] 'em. They need me more than I need them. Without me, they have no purpose. Without them, I still have work to do.

Very nicely put.

Plus, killing dragons isn't their primary principle, serving the dragonborn is. That they let the former overthrow the latter illuminates their skewed priorities.

Luagar2's posts explain my take on the situation nicely.

And I think in any context, "you must do something that we cannot" is both unwise, and very bad form. Clearly Delphine and Esbern cannot kill Paarthurnax with their own power. It's the equivalent of a few of the Danes telling Beowulf that he better kill Grendel, or else. In short, ridiculous - even discounting the Blades being sworn to the Dragonborn at this point.

Indeed.

And come to think of it Huleed raises a good point, what exactly is their plan should they choose to abandon the Dragonborn? I mean, what are their alternatives? To sit up in my temple until they rot? They're clearly not going to kill any dragons, much less Paarth. If they abandon the Dragonborn they might as well go be farmers or something, because their lives as Blades are over. The most they can do is go back into hiding and hope another Dragonborn comes along who is more keen on taking orders from his subordinates, or who also just has an unhealthy hatred of all things dragon.

That they themselves are incapable of doing the task they set before you, and yet require it before their fulfill their own vows, tops it off.

Edit: You know, I didn't actually have much against the Blades before I started posting in this thread. Sure, I thought they were a couple of douchmongering fools, but I didn't realize just how deep their idiotic hypocricy went until I started to anolyze it.

Except they aren't. At no point whatsoever do they say 'hey, Dragonborn, tell us what to do and give us purpose'. Maybe they do that after you kill Parthurnaax, I don't know. Before that it's all 'dude, let's figure out what the hell is going on with all these dragons trying to burninate the countryside' and 'let's find out if the Thalmor are somehow behind it' and 'let's save Esbern from being horrifically tortured and murdered by elves', and 'let's go find this temple that has dragon lore stuff in it maybe'. You're quoting the Akaviri Blades talking to Reman Cyrodiil. At no point do Delphine and Esbern ASK YOU to be their leader and guide.

You are expecting them to act against their conscience. You claim their order only exists to serve the Dragonborn (IE. you) and therefore everything else should be secondary, but obviously they don't agree. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not. Maybe that book is inaccurate or incomplete. Maybe that's how things used to be, but now that there are, perhaps, only two Blades left in the world, they aren't necessarily keen to bind themselves to the service of a Dragonborn who would let someone like Parthurnaax live. Maybe they've spent thirty years being hunted by fanatic homicidal elves and have only survived by being suspicious and very very careful. Delphine is risking horrible death by so much as contacting you, let alone actively moving around before she even knows you exist in an attempt to work out the dragon problem. Esbern and Delphine are risking horrible death and the complete eradication of the Blades, not to mention desecration of Sky Haven Temple, by coming openly to the peace meeting to give you Odahviing's name. You continue to get the 'from a friend' notes that tell you where Dragon Walls are, and presumably this is also from Delphine, which means again, risking exposure if the correspondence is intercepted.

In their view, allowing Parthurnaax to live IS an atrocity, or at the very least, an acceptance of atrocities, or a willingness to turn a blind eye to atrocities. In your view, killing him is an act of ungrateful, shortsighted, vengeful murder. It'd be great if the Blades came around to your point of view, but expecting that they must, because you are The Chosen One (read: the PC), is, again, expecting them to set aside their conscience in favor of your whim. Why would some newly found Dragonborn know better than the Blades what oaths the Blades took? Hell, in Oblivion, Martin was the direct heir to the Septim throne, and the Blades, while deferential and certainly very dedicated to protecting him, weren't directly taking orders from him for most of it. They were taking orders from their Grandmaster, who was just as often, if not more, guiding Martin than Martin was guiding him.

My hypothetical situations are relevant because I don't agree with your assertions that the Blades must follow the Dragonborn without question, or that, in an extreme, they would necessarily cling to the Dragonborn at all. If the Dragonborn is their ONLY purpose, why exactly were they still spying for the Empire at the onset of the Great War, nearly two hundred years after the death of the last Dragonborn? Why would the Thalmor give a single care about them being around if all they're doing is searching around for some fabled leader, who apparently embodies their entire purpose for existing without any direction as to what they should do when they FIND this person, other than 'protect him and do what he says'. There have been huge stretches of time in which there hasn't been a Dragonborn at all before now, do the Blades just wander around looking for hundreds of years with no other purpose whatsoever? That's a pretty ridiculously pointless organization.

To quote the Rise and fall of the blades

"With the death of Uriel Septim VII and his son, Martin, the 3rd era came to a close with the Blades fortifying themselves deep within Cyrodiil's Cloud Ruler Temple, as they waited for a Dragonborn to return when they would be called upon again.

The Empire of the 4th era no longer saw the Blades openly protecting it, or the Emperors. That role is now filled by the Penitus Oculatus, a purely Imperial organization. But the Blades continued their secret work, to watch for the Dragonborn and guard against future enemies. The Blades were among the first to see the signs that the Thalmor of the Aldmeri Dominion would not remain isolated within their borders forever. They could do what the Penitus Oculatus, servant to Imperial policy, could not, and thus earned the lasting hatred of the Thalmor.

....

There are those that say the Blades still exist around us, in hiding from the Thalmor. Waiting as they have done time and time again, for a Dragonborn to return. For one to protect, for one to guide them."

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-rise-and-fall-blades

If that book is correct then after the dead of the Septims they pretty much lost their purpose, and waited for a Dragonborn to give them direction again. However it also shows that they are perfectly capable of handling things without Imperial Support or without a leader. They on their own acted to defeat the Thalmor and to stop the Aldmeri dominion, something that nearly saw them all die. You can draw two conclusions from this, I think.

1. The blades primary purpose is to serve the dragonborn.
2. With or without a dragonborn the blades are still their own organization and they can and will act on their own. Regardless of what a possible leader might say.

A third point appears in the last sentence. For one to protect, for one to guide them. Refusing to kill Paarth stops both those things, which is strange if it's all their looking for. However guide does not necessarily mean the exact same thing as command. Perhaps they truly believe your guidance to be off, and because of that refuse to help you anymore.

Another quote of interest

"Whether there can be more than one Dragonborn at any one time is another mystery. The Emperors have done their best to dismiss this notion, but of course the Imperial succession itself means that at the very least there are two or more potential Dragonborn at any time: the current ruler and his or her heirs. The history of the Blades also hints at this - although little is known of their activities during the Interregnum between Reman's Empire and the rise of Tiber Septim, many believe that the Blades continued to search out and guard those who hey believed were (or might be) Dragonborn during this time."

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-book-dragonborn

It shows that the previous time without an Emperor they searched for a new dragonborn and were mostly dormant.

All this does seem to suggest that the Blades their primary purpose is the safety and protection of the Dragonborn and following his or her orders, after all they pretty much try to ensure that whoever is the Dragonborn also becomes the Emperor of Tamriel.. Though if that's a smart thing or not I don't know. However there is something else here. The blades without a Dragonborn Emperor stopped serving the Empire it self, though they did still work in favor of it, they no longer actively worked for it.

Then there is this

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-annals-dragonguard

All in all this paints a rather confusing tale:

They serve the Dragonborn
Actively try to make the Dragonborn Emperor
They serve the Empire
Then they refuse orders of a Dragonborn Emperor
Then they follow the next dragonborn Emperor again
Then the dragonborn Emperors die out and they try to find a new Dragonborn
Then they serve that person again....
Only they don't if that person goes against what they personally believe is right

Could they make up their mind already?

Seriously though it seems like the Blades are sworn to protect serve and follow the Dragonborn, but can in certain situations refuse to do so. Like if they believe the person to be unworthy or the orders to be wrong, they have done so in the past with an order to supress a Rebellion and I see no reason why they couldn't again when somebody refuses to kill a Dragon. The blades therefor serve and protect, but only as long as you are worthy....

Except that they did ask me to be their leader and their guide. By becoming Blades they asked me, not in words, but by the manifest actions of their lives. They upheld the vows of those who serve the Dragonborn, I'm the Dragonborn, therefore their vows apply to me. They don't have to vocalize it, they gave their lives to it when they decided to become Blades.

It's not that "some newly found Dragonborn know better than the Blades what oaths the Blades took", it's that we know objectively what the Blades are meant to do, and they aren't doing it and are in fact acting against it. Historically the Blades have supported Dragonborn Emperors who have always protected Paarth, so why should I be any different? Why, after I've defeated Alduin himself, am I still held to a higher standard than all Dragonborn before me? Much less a standard that it's not even my responsibility to uphold.

If they outright reject the Dragonborn just because he won't be their personal executioner then they've failed as Blades. Executioner is not my job title, so they shouldn't expect it of me, nor should it be required of me before their fulfill their vows.

And because it's an important point I'll reiterate: It doesn't even have to be that you're on Paarth's side. Maybe I'm not on Paarth's side, maybe I'm just tired of killing 'effing dragons. Maybe I want to pursue other goals, and here they are telling me to [censored] off because I won't personally complete their dragon genocide. My reason for not killing Paarth doesn't have to be that I think he's a swell guy. It doesn't matter why you won't kill him, only that you won't; even though it's not your job, and even though the Blades have never demanded it of your predecessors, and even though they're sworn to serve you, and even though you may have valid reasons.

Why did they not tell Uriel Septim, "Unless you go climb Hrothgar and kill that dragon we won't serve you." How is it any different when they ask the player to do so?
----------------------------------

During the time when there was no Dragonborn they were simply trying to fulfill the tasks they were given when there was one, which was to protect the Empire (which in the past had been the surest way to protect and serve the Dragonborn) and they were damn good at it (which is why the Thalmor cared). Their primary goal was absent, so like anybody with half-a-brain, a survival instinct and a vast network of resources they took up the goal of preserving theirselves and their fellows against a common enemy. And as Fishy has shown, they did spend that entire time looking for a Dragonborn to serve.

Sure Delphine and Esbern may have been risking alot throughout the Main Quest and prior in helping you, and they may have gambled alot on you, but that no longer matters after the Main Quest - you've won, you've proven everything they've done worthwhile. They are secure, you've proven yourself multiple times, you've saved the world - and yet they don't care for your guidance, you, who personally defeated Alduin. They don't care what you have to say, they only care that dragons are bad.

Though what's important to note is that even then, while they may have disobeyed an order, they didn't outright up and abandon the Emperor.

They didn't say "You know what, go [censored] yourself, we reject our vows indefinitely. Come back when you're willing to kill for us."

I agree with you for the most part, although I didn't much earlier in this thread. However the blades never told you that either. They merely say we won't serve you anymore but then still help out occasionally. So they haven't totally abandonded you either. Also there is a matter of consequence to consider.

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world
When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped
When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles
When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls
When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding
The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

That last sentence in particualir, when you die they will need something else to do anyway. Because you could very well be the last dragonborn... So throwing everything they have into supporting you might seem like a good idea, but it might not be. You won't create a lasting dynasty of Dragonborns, at least according to the prophecy. More important and practical however, in the reference I gave they disobeyed an order from an Emperor in command of countless legions... To actively stop working for the Empire or even against it would have been suicide. They have no reason to assume you would kill them instead of Paarthy... So it's a safer thing to do.




This part is complete speculation. We have no reason to believe anybody, whether it was the blades or previous Emperors had any knowledge of Paarth being alive let alone stand being there on top of that mountain...



You might have very valid reasons for not wanting to be a dragon killer anymore. But why would the blades follow the last of the Dragonborns after he has fufilled the prophecy and if he's not willing to take more dragons or you know become Emperor (I'm assuming the last part because it's impossible in game). What would their purpose be then, besides guarding somebody who is no longer of critical importance in the world? Not to them, not to anyone?

It then becomes a matter of choosing whether or not their oaths force them into servitute no matter what, or whether or not like (like we have seen in the past) some matter of personal interpetation is possible. Now personally in this situation considering all you have done for them, I think they should give you the benefit of the doubt and their a bunch of asses for not doing it. I also think it strange that after 200 years of looking for you, especially in their darkest hour they would just turn their backs on you. However, I still see their point no matter how stupid it sounds.

If they can't follow your guidance of "Paarthurnax shows that even some of the worst dragons can reform and be peaceful, even helpful to mankind. Let's kill those dragons that won't follow his lead, but give a chance to those that are willing to." then it really doesn't show them to be any better than genocidal maniacs. I mean, hell, even with that you're basically condemning dragons to servitude ("do what we want, or we'll kill you"), but that's not good enough?

The dragons themselves weren't even that bad. Sure, they killed a bunch of people, but their primary role was that of ruling over and oppression, not killing all in existence. And even at that, most of the oppression came from certain sects of dragon priests, not the dragons directly.

All true, regardless they don't want you to kill Paarth because he's a dragon they want you to kill him because of the crimes he commited in the past. They hold him responsible for genocide. Case in point they don't seem to care much about you summoning another dragon right in front of them... So it's not necessarily so that they want all dragons to die, it's just that they want Paarth to die.

Dammit, I had a truly massive post, and the forums ate it. Lemme see if I can reconstruct it well enough:

The book you wanted sourced: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-annals-dragonguard



This is Emperor Kastav. I have no idea if he was Dragonborn, and he seems to come between Reman I and Reman II. Maybe it was a Regency? So I can't say for sure that they directly disobeyed a Dragonborn, because I literally can't find any other information on this guy.

This book does make numerous references to dragon sightings/slayings, so the Dragonguard were doing that even after swearing allegiance to Reman.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-atlas-dragons



Once again, the Dragonguard were dragonslayers. Odahviing is listed in this, which is presumably where Esbern gets the name. Also:



The Blades have been after Paarthurnax for a VERY very long time. They don't want a confrontation with the Greybeards. You, however, are not only able to get past the Greybeards, you're able to get right to where Paarthurnax roosts. You may well be their first opportunity to ever really go after him.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-book-dragonborn



Dragonborn have been known as great dragonslayers in the past. The Akaviri that became the Dragonguard slew many dragons when they came to Tamriel, and there's evidence they kept doing it after joining Reman.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-thalmor-dossier-delphine



Nearly two hundred years after Martin's death, the Blades were actively working against threats to the Empire, IE. the Thalmor. Delphine hasn't been idle, and the Thalmor believe she's still working against them. She's not just wandering around looking for the Chosen One.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-thalmor-dossier-esbern



Again, the Blades weren't sitting idle and inactive. In addition, the Blades' dragonlore surpasses that of the Altmer, because they were originally Akaviri dragonslayers.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-rise-and-fall-blades



Again, their origins were as dragonslayers.



Their purpose became fully focused on the Dragonborn and the protection of the Empire AFTER all the dragons were wiped out. Dragon slaying was still a focus for the Akaviri Dragonguard, even after finding the Dragonborn.



To guard against future enemies is important here. This is the reason they were acting against the Thalmor. Note that Delphine's reason for wanting Paarthurnax to die is that he could very well turn traitor again.

As the poster above pointed out, 'guidance' does not necessarily mean 'slavish, unquestioning devotion'.

Sorry for the doublepost, this wouldn't all fit into one:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-there-be-dragons



Yet more talk about the Akaviri who became the Dragonguard who became the Blades being prolific dragon hunters.



This suggests Reman Cyrodiil may well have been involved in some of those dragon hunts.



Tiber Septim being Dragonborn, this also seems to suggest he might've got in on that action too.

Basically:

1. The Blades' most ancient roots are steeped in dragonslaying. They were dragonslayers in AKavir, they were dragonslayers once they came to Tamriel, they were dragonslayers after swearing fealty to Reman Cyrodiil, and they only seem to have stopped being dragonslayers once there were no more dragons to slay.

2. The Dragonborn were known as great dragonslayers. We know from the game that the only way to permanently kill a dragon is for the Dragonborn to absorb that dragon's essence. Even the early emperors may well have been dragonslayers.

3. Paarthurnax is a very very VERY old target of the Dragonguard-Blades. This isn't something they pulled out of a hat, they just happened to learn he was still around...and that you had access.

4. The Blades are primarily dedicated to the Dragonborn, but in times when the Dragonborn isn't around, they are not necessarily idle. They were not idle over the past two centuries. They 'guard against future enemies', which fits with their problems with the Thalmor, and ALSO plays to the concern that Paarthurnax may not remain a friend.

5. The Blades refused the direct orders of an Emperor, quoting that it violated their 'oath of allegiance' (note that they were, despite their objections, following his orders beforehand, even if they weren't treating the hostages in the way he was probably wanting them to). No telling if this Emperor was Dragonborn; probably not. Reman II hadn't taken the throne yet.

In sum up: A Dragonborn who refuses to slay one of the Blades' most ancient enemies, a dragon, in a time when dragons are rauaging the countryside and dragonslaying has suddenly become relevant again, may, in fact, to the two remaining members of a shattered order absolutely STEEPED in the blood of dragons, appear to be betraying his position as Dragonborn, and the deepest, most ancient part of their order, for the sake of personal feelings. This may not, in fact, be a random whim by fickle old people, but an actual violating of their oaths and their original purpose.

In which case it appears they've said 'well [censored] THAT guy' too. :laugh:

And I'll again bring up Tiber Septim. Not only did he go to High Hrothgar and meet the Greybeards, it was also in a time when there were dragons roaming about and there wasn't another known Dragonborn. Not only did they not give Tiber the ultimatum to kill Paarthurnax, they allowed Nafaalilargus to serve in his army.

That is, unless they want to go and retcon poor Naffy out...

@kartikeya200:
Nobody ever said that the Blade's history was steeped in dragon-killing, or that the dragonborn wasn't the best dragon killer of them all.

The point is that this is not their reason for existing, it's not their original motive, to serve the dragonborn is. Whether or not the dragonborn wants to kill dragons is completely irrelevant to this main goal, indeed, the dragonborn even show a history of harboring dragons.

They're more of a cult than they are a group of soldiers, and yet you want to keep treating them like it's just a matter of following orders. It's not, it's a matter of serving that which they have sworn their lives to. Yes, we have one instance of them disobeying an order, but ingame is the first time they're ever turned their back on a dragonborn outright.

In essence that's exactly what they told you.

They told you they wouldn't help you out anymore (and I didn't even get the 'occasional' help because of where I was at that point in the game, I was outright abandoned). This encompasses both the "go [censored] yourself" and the "we reject our vows" parts; the former because they won't help you, the latter because their life is supposed to be dedicated to helping you. Their ultimatum was that you must kill Paarth, thus the "come back when you're willing to kill for us" - even though, ya' know, they're supposed to be the ones killing for me, not the other way around.

That may be interpreted as "last Dragonborn alive" as opposed to "last Dragonborn that will ever be alive."

The thing is that in your example they disobeyed an order, they didn't subsequently decide to reject all orders.

Did the blades knew Paarth was there during that time? I'm not entirely sure on that part, and if they didn't then there is nothing different about that. If they did, then it's certainly strange... But perhaps they did not believe that this time would be the right time to strike succesfuly.

How many dragons were out there back then, known dragons? 1??

Most people seem to assume there were no Dragons during Tiber Septim his time, but even if there were they weren't at war with all live on Tamriel that's for certain. So it's a completely different situation.

How so? Paarth isn't at war with all life on Tamriel either.