I doubt if I can consider Bloodskaal and Nerevarine as being the same person.

If you complete Morrowind and Bloodmoon, you are considered the Bloodskaal and the Nerevarine at the same time. But both Main Quests are independent of each other (they have very different stories) in Lore and in game.

Should be Bloodskaal (the hero who killed Kaarstag, fulfilled the Bloodmoon prophecy and defeated Hircine) and Nerevarine (the hero who defeated Dagoth Ur, fulfilled the Nerevarine Prophecies and killed Almalexia) considered the same hero? (in general, of course)

Sorry if I posted the topic in wrong area.

I think the character could be, since just the Nords refer to the character as "Bloodskaal" IIRC. Could be that the character is simply a person destined by the stars to fullfil various peoples prophecies wherever the character so happens to go. :shrug:

It could also be a similar thing wherein Bloodskaal could simply be the Nordic Nerevarine.

I see no reason why fullfiling one prophecy makes one unable to fullfil another.

On a slightly different note, I wonder how the Nerevarine is doing up in Akivir?

Well...

Yes!

I would think so, if the Nerevarine went to Solsiam (however you spell it!) and killed Kaarstag and defeated Hircine then yes. This to me is where TES lore gets "iffy" some player will become the werewolf and others the hero... while some won't even do a thing!

dbug

Nothing prevents the Nerevarine from completing bloodmoon, so yes, the Nerevarine can be the Bloodskaal.

The only actions the Devs force that the PC did do in the last game are those of the main quest and the Main Quest of any expansion pack.

There's no condition one way or the other. The Nerevarine may go on to become the Blodskaal (or vice versa), but nothing about the Blodskaal demands that he ever have embarked on the path of the Nerevarine (other than he would have rotted in the Imperial hoosegow if Azura hadn't played her "get out of jail free" scroll for him).

A reason that's interesting, but not sufficient, is that the events of Tribunal don't play out that way. In Tribunal, Helseth and Almalexia both make much of your status as the Nerevarine (even if you didn't play the game that way). Because in Tribunal you are the Nerevarine, but in Bloodmoon nothing requires you to be, it's a fair inference that there is no necessary connection between the Nerevarine and the Blodskaal.

I would have to agree, it's not like heroes of a limit that says they can only fulfill one prophecy, and seeing as the main quests of both Morrowind and Bloodmoon can be played using the same character, I would say that yes, they are, in canon, at least, the same character, if Bethesda had wanted us to think of them as different people, they

Though the two titles seem pretty independant to me, it's just that both are the same person by virtue of the fact that Morrowind's expansions don't require you to play a new character, there's certainly no reason that both prophecies NEED to be fulfilled by the same character, and if you only did one main quest and want to think of it as your character only attaining one title and the other being taken by someone else, I guess that's alright too.

looking at the TIL, sounds to me like they are the same person.
from http://www.imperial-library.info/history/3.shtml:
"Later on, historians record another great deed of the Nerevarine. On the island of Solstheim, the Nerevarine thwarts the murderous plot of the great Daedric Prince Hircine by fulfilling the Bloodmoon Prophecy (an ancient legend among the nordic tribe of the Skaal in Solstheim island). With this, he saves nearly all the inhabitants of the island from the ferociousness of Hircine's werewolves. This is the story of the TES3 Exp: Bloodmoon.
Source: The Story of Morrowind, TIL Book of Daedra."

and

"Some time after the last Nerevarine's deed in the island of Solstheim..."

seem to be a pretty clear there that Nerevarine went on to become Blodskaal.

The Bloodskaal is the Bloodskaal and the Nerevarine is the Nerevarine. Can these be the same person? Yes. Must they? No. Are they probably? Well, how many super competent adventurers do you know of who run around fulfilling ancient prophecies?

There's nothing to force them to be the same person, and nothing to prevent it.

Those are summaries written by fans, they assume the Bloodskaal to be the Nerevarine because it was that way in the game. That does not make it so, as there is no legitimate canon source on it.

I would rather have two different heroes lore wise, but there's nothing preventing the Nerevarine from fulfilling both prophecies. However, if you said the CoC also defeated Mannimarco while becoming the Grand Champion of the Arena and the new Listener for the Brotherhood I would have to disagree I think it is implied that just because the PC can do all those things, he doesn't have to by lore.

The only lore that exists is that some particular person performed each of these deeds. Mannimarco is killed, the Grey Prince is defeated, the Blackwood Company gets sent back to the marshes, the Black Hand all end up dead to be reborn, the Gray Fox curse is lifted, Tamriel is saved from Lord Dagon, Sheogorath and Jyggalag get separated, etc.

Each of these deeds is performed by a Hero. The identity of the Hero is not important, only that he/she is a Hero. It could be one person, two people, multiple people or perhaps nobody at all. The only thing that matters is that history is driven forward. Same applies to Morrowind and its expansions and all the rest.

Except in Morrowind, there was more of an opportunity for multiple time lines to diverge. I'm still not convinced there wasn't a Dragon Break of some sort there, at least a little one, because you can definitely upset the political balance in different ways by completing different factions or even the same faction another way. For instance, there's one Fighters Guild timeline where you destroy the Thieves' Guild leadership, and another where you crush Commona Tong agents. Both these things can clearly not have happened, unless the person was an agent of pure anarchy who chose no sides at all. I'm of the opinion that just because something COULD happen in Morrowind doesn't mean it did. For instance it's possible to kill Vivec before Tribunal, but he has some dialogue for that game, so I wouldn't consider his death canon until after those events.

I tend to think that if Bethesda has developed a post-Morrowind canon for the land of Morrowind, it leans towards Hlaalu - Imperial dominance rather than traditional Dunmer society. That's reflected in the snippets of dialogue from Oblivion and the forum posts we've read from devs and ex devs, and some dialogue from Infernal City. To that end, I believe that the quests where you help promote Imperial or Hlaalu interests in the game are probably of a higher level of canonicity than the ones where you didn't.

If anybody else has read the Wheel of Time series, it is entirely possible for one person to fulfill multiple peoples' prophecies. Rand Al'Thor, the main character in the Wheel of Time, is first the Dragon Reborn -- a prophecy known to everyone. He is also the Car'a'carn -- the Chief of Chiefs -- to the Aiel people. He is also the Coramoor to the Sea Folk.

However, Hairdo makes a good point. Lore-wise, it is most likely that many different people would have done these things. It simply seems to us that the same person is doing all of them in our game because, well, it is the same person. They're just giving us the opportunity to be the one who did whatever it was. However, history will remember it however.

Right. It seems extremely unlikely that the same person could ever run both the Mages Guild and the Dark Brotherhood, for instance. Way too many questions would arise. Too many conflicts of interest. Guildmaster is a full time job anyway. There are tons of administrative duties that are not represented in game due to the nature of the game system. If I'm Guildmaster of the Fighters Guild, I'm gonna spend most of my work day sitting behind a desk issuing orders, and the rest of my free time either resolving conflicts, meeting with local hall leaders or training my combat skills. No adventuring for me.

point to one other fitting candidate for Bloodskaal position who fits the appropriate time and profile(skills, equipment, etc). then i am convinced that Nerevarine is not also Bloodskaal.

but yeah, given lack of much of anything canon, no reason he(she) can't be both and nothing is forcing him(her) to be both.

if you are the Grandmaster, isn't task delegation and or outsourcing are some of your prerogatives? if no positions exist that allows mass scale task delegation and or outsourcing, make one up and point and place fitting candidates, install a system of accountability and done. rinse and repeat for each guild controlled and there are multiple ways to deal with all the remaining or possible or possibly arising question and or conflicts or conflicts of interest. *cue Hlaalu-themed music here *

Well, I'd like to believe that in Tamriel, unlike this world we live in, CEOs actually are decent people who earn their keep and contribute something to society. *shrugs*

Benevolent CEOs? In a world where suppliers dig up graves and sell the dead's belongings to vendors? Where guards charge exorbitant fines (albeit begrudgingly) for the smallest infraction of the law, only to pay for the chief's family vacations? Where kings hire assassin's to take out heroes that could possibly threaten their power? Naaahh...

Back on topic: I don't see why the Nerevarine couldn't be the Bloodskaal. S/he's all ready swirling with large amounts destiny by being the Nerevarine, a little more destiny will make the epic poems about him or her that much greater.

Speaking of this subject, does anybody else think the CoC and the new Sheogorath are not the same person? Everybody seem to talk like he became Sheogorath, but could have easily been another person that saved the isles.

Now in theory, the CoC CAN be the new Sheo, but I doubt any of that will be mentioned in any canon source. Usually side quest and expansions are left for a player's own interpretation instead of a set canon (except for Tribunal of course). For example, the Nerevarine could have done all thieves guild quests, but it also could have been somebody else that wasn't the Nerevarine. You don't have to do the main quest to do any of the guide quest line ( although I think one of the last Mage Guild quest requires you to beat the main story. That's the only exception).

Haskill does mention that Sheogorath is searching for a champion, but his search appears to be for anyone so inclined, not for the putative Champion of Cyrodiil in particular. You may not be the first to take up Sheogorath's cause, but if there were any before you, they all fell to the Gatekeeper or went mad.

Well, they had to pass some initiation and tests, or else they would have ended up the same way as the hole filled with clowns.

I like to think the Nerevarine is Bloodskaal, and my COC is not Sheogorath. I can't prove I'm right, and you can't prove I'm wrong.

Ah, the wonders of TES.

What if the Bloodskaal and Champion of Cyrodiil are the same person?

I generally agree - any of the main quests (in and out of the same game) could theoretically have been completed by one or any number of heroes. I know that some people play Oblivion as a sequel with their same Morrowind character and some sort of reason why he/she became weak and ended up in jail. Other people play each quest-line independently, with separate heroes for Morrowind, Bloodmoon, Oblivion, and Shivering Isles, plus separate mini-heroes for each guild affiliation within the games. Since Elder Scrolls history avoids specifics about any heroes, only citing their existence and alluding to possible accomplishments that cannot be authoritatively attached to any one person, it seems pretty wide open for interpretation.

Stupid Neraverine, hogging all the prophecies! <_<