Main wiki article: http://www.creationkit.com/Biped_Object

so there are a total of 15 unused body nodes that can each have a new armor piece equipped to them without forcing something else to unequip.

i'm hoping there could be some kind of commonn consensus that modders can use as a guide when making new armors, so that we dont have all different kinds of armor being equipped to any random node. this would cause compatibility issues for users who download multiple mods and find that there are items that clip/overlap/force-unequip items that seem like they shouldn't.


i'm putting this list up just as a suggestion and hopefully we can all contribute to it and come to some sort of agreement. i'm not trying to be a *** telling other people how to do their mods, it's just better for everyone if modders follow the same numbering protocol (at least IMO).



LIST EDITED 3/3 to incorporate suggestions from discussion on nexusforums



already existing named nodes:

30 - head
31 - hair
32 - body (full)
33 - hands
34 - forearms
35 - amulet
36 - ring
37 - feet
38 - calves
39 - shield
40 - tail
41 - long hair
42 - circlet
43 - ears
50 - decapitated head
51 - decapitate
61 - FX01


proposed extra nodes:



44 - face/mouth
45 - neck (like a cape, scarf, or shawl, neck-tie etc)
46 - chest primary or outergarment
47 - back (like a backpack/wings etc)
48 - misc/FX (use for anything that doesnt fit in the list)
49 - pelvis primary or outergarment
52 - pelvis secondary or undergarment
53 - leg primary or outergarment or right leg
54 - leg secondary or undergarment or leftt leg
55 - face alternate or jewelry
56 - chest secondary or undergarment
57 - shoulder
58 - arm secondary or undergarment or left arm
59 - arm primary or outergarment or right arm
60 - misc/FX (use for anything that doesnt fit in the list)


comments/suggestions?

I thought about this issue as well. Needing to remove my modded cape to use use my modded glasses wouldn't be a pleasing situation.

A consensus between the modders would be the best solution. You should post this on the Nexus as well.

Looks good so far, I suggest leaving 60 - wrist blank. Someone will always come up with something that doesn't quite fit, and it would be useful to mark it as a free-for-all.

where do I attach a cape and if I want cape plus backpack?

cape = 45 (neck)
backpack = 47 (back)


if you have an armor that is a combined cape and backpack, you would set 2 bsdismember nodes and assign them to 45 and 47. or if they are separate pieces, just assign them each 1 bsdismember node and set the numbers as stated above.

I'll let this sit for a few days. Unless there are any major objections from anyone, I could add these descriptions to nif.xml, so we'd have the names in the partition dropdown. (and once the other tools are updated, they can use the list as well)

that would be awesome. thanks

what about necklaces? those are 35

I don't know ... could we do layers with this? I'd love to be able to return the Morrowind idea of wearing mail over a shirt. There was so much flexibility in that system. it would be nice to be able to do that again with modern graphics.

The other thing to consider is the possibility of skimpy underwear for the ladies. that's worth considering, if only because an awful lot of designers are going to choose a scheme that allows for frilly undies.

Anyway, one possible setup based on the above. Just as food for thought.

44 - lower face - mouth chin/jaw etc - such as a cowl or bandana/half-mask
45 - neck - such as a cape or scarf
46 - chest
47 - back/backpack
48 - shirt/blouse
49 - skirt/trousers - wearable under armour
52 - pelvis
53 - socks/stockings
54 - knees/kneepad
55 - shin/greaves
56 - ankles/anklet or wrist/bracelet (?)
57 - pauldrons/shoulder
58 - vest/shirt
59 - panties/underwear
60 - miscellaneous/other

the way i imagined it, the shirt/blouse/bikini top any kind of undergarment top would fall under "chest", and kind of panties/lower undergarment would fall under "pelvis".

socks and stockings would probably fall under the existing boots/feet that are already named nodes. unless of course you are thinking of having separately equippable shoes that go over the stockings. in which case i would think they fall under shin/greaves or ankles.

getting rid of something commonly found on armor sets like elbow pads and thighs (which i would imagine has just as much "demand" as any, as far as modular armor pieces go) might not be fair to everyone else.

there is also some overlap flexibility, for example if you equipped shoes on the already existing feet or boot node, stockings on the shins, and some kind of leg armor over that on the knees, which could also extend down to the shin area.

i'll update the list so it shows the already existing named nodes

It's never going to be perfect, clipping will always be an issue when it comes to crossing outfits from different mods.

But we do have plenty of great options, I like how Armor > ArmorAddon works. Different combinations can be created from smaller modular pieces without needing a bunch of extra nifs. ie, armor with or without shoulderpads, kneepads, other decorations.

Also of note is the overriding of slots, as seen with head and hair in conjunction with different helmets or circlets. In the nif, a dismember slot of 140 would override rendering of slot 40, and presumably, 240 would override both.

Could there be something like 3 recommended modes for full sets?

1: The Full Warrior set - Amethyst's list with belt and elbow stuff etc.

2: The Casual Warrior - Clothes under armor.

3: The Truly Weird - ehum; DocClox suggested double panties and double shirts.

Then add a keyword to the mod as to which cathegory it belongs (and explenation in the documentation), so downloaders are aware that unexpected things can happen if they mix too freely.

I don't know. My head spins just from trying to imagine all the conflicts.

I don't know why you're quoting "demand". It's not a word I used, nor is it part of your text.

You asked for comments and suggestions and I gave you some. Obviously, you're going to make your final proposal as you think best. I wouldn't have it any other way.

sorry "demand" was not meant as sarcasm or anything of the sort, nor was it implying that you were demanding anything.

i used it there in quotes because i'm describing something that could possibly be in demand, not "i demand this". i put it in quotes because its hypothetical at this point. probably the wrong word choice regardless.

i'm always open to suggestions to modify the list (thats the whole point of this thread), but my post above was merely pointing out the changes you proposed already fall under some of the slots in the first list, and that your proposed parts to drop could potentially be useful to others.


and like throttlekitty pointed out, its never going to be perfect, i'm more interested in finding common ground with all modders that spreads the extra slots as evenly as possible, unless some of the body nodes in that list truly would be pointless to waste on its own slot

should i get rid of the ankles/wrists slot to add in a second layer for the chest area? in case people want to have like a shirt + a vest. maybe having a slot for bracelets or anklets wouldn't really be all that important and could fall under misc?

Fair enough

I agree with throttlekitty as well. It's never going to be perfect, and what you've proposed is probably as good a scheme as any. We'll probably see some alternative application specific schemes proposed, but what you've got is pretty good for a general purpose scheme.

It might be worth expanding on what you have in mind for some of the slots though, if only so you don't have to explain this half a dozen times more

how about naming it by layer, incorporating docclox's suggestions (might be clearer this way) rather than very specific body zones:

44 - face
45 - neck
46 - chest outergarment
47 - back
48 - abdomen
49 - pelvis outergarment
52 - pelvis undergarment
53 - leg outergarment
54 - leg undergarment
55 - knee
56 - chest undergarment
57 - shoulder
58 - arm undergarment
59 - arm outergarment
60 - misc


is this any better?

oo, much better.

The Nif.xml should be a repositroy for Nif file format descriptions not an arbitrary demands list to try and get everyone to conform to this one setup -> besides naming the Partitions anything other then their Biped Slot value only breaks the dfinition for all of the other actors in the game -> there is more then just the Character Actor !... and trying to set up new actors partitions when all you see if SF_Body, SF_Whatever would be unbelievably frustrating.

The list I gave you during the CK Beta was best overall, all I want to see is the Biped Slot Value and maybe a note saying what Bethesda used that slot for.

hm, well put.

Sounds good, however how about my idea about Khajiit earrings as separate object, do not want to use the circlet slot, as it will be an natural addition to them.

Last how does I get items to use non standard slots? They do not show up for me, Modify both the armor and armor and armoraddon entry but nothing shows up.

the bsdismember node in the nif file also has to match the number index of the body part

I am for it But In the nif tools could be added ( sugested slot for ) so noone is forced to but ....

That's a lot clearer, thanks

I'll go along with a list like this. It might not always be a perfect fit but there ought to be some list and this seems as good as any. I think though that if I release any wearable mods like I plan to I would like to release a normal version that goes along with the list, and then another version or two that hook up to alertnate slots just in case someone wants to wear my mod with another that already uses the slot. I recommend that any author make a habit of that as a courtesy. Standards but with flexibility, I say, so's not to squash variety at the same time as you hold down chaos.

Would you guys even consider making that part of the protocol? We make our pieces to attach to the most appropriate slot on the list, then always offer an alternate version that attaches to "misc" or something?