In Daggerfall, Boethiah is allied with Stendarr, what's with that? Boethiah is a dadera and stendarr is an adera so shouldn't they be enemy's?

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/aedra_daedra.shtml aren't neccesarily enemies, they are just different. Being different does not make the other your enemy instantly.

hmm, that link raises more questions, it says daedra cant create, but ive been to dead lands and the shivering isles and met many creatures native to those realms (dremora, golden saints etc) does that mean that most daedra are actually aedra :S

Looks like you are fairly new to the Lore.

I'll have to suggest you read some into the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=15282&view=findpost&p=2973364 and the links it gives, to answer at least some of your questions.

on one of the links it said that the daedra had no connection to creation, meaning the original creation. so my guess is that the original link that you gave me was wrong where it said that daedra could not create, they just have no connection to the original creation, but are still able to create realms of their own.

Well, you'd think so, but that's not the case. Warning: Some pretty esoteric lore is ahead.



A short explanation of the above:

The three major realms of creation are the Mundus (the mortal planet), Oblivion (the domain of the Daedra) and Aetherius (the Aedric plane). Oblivion surrounds Mundus, and Aetherius surrounds Oblivion, like the skins of an onion. The stars are gateways between Oblivion and Aetherius. Magicka seeps from Aetherius into Oblivion through the stars.

The Daedra ("padomaic powers") used the magick ("aetherial refuse") that flows from Aetherius to construct their realms. In effect, they are actually changing something, not creating it.

Same story, different intepretations, it seems.

Muthsera Tab,

It is with great honor and adulation that the great Aedroth, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Julianos#Julianoshas deigned for us to meet. I say so due to your question being very insightful in its intrinsic issue recognition. His Holiness, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Valandrus_Abor, Primate of the Great Chapel of Julianos in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Skingrad in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cyrodiil has granted his blessing to scholars of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Julianos in such places as http://www.imperial-library.info/realms_iliac/ to speak for the institutions of Julianos in certain circumstances. Your question falls into that allowed category. JHUNAL smiles upon us both, does He not?

You have posed the following question: If the Daedra are aligned with change as the Aedra are aligned with creation, then how did the Daedra create their Daedric Realms?"

I will answer you as follows, Julianos be praised!

Creatia is contained in Aetherius, "the plane of pure magicka". (http://www.imperial-library.info/pge3/arena_supermundus.shtml) Oblivion surrounds NIRN. (http://www.imperial-library.info/pge3/arena_supermundus.shtml) One can see Aetherius via the holes torn in Oblivion. (http://www.imperial-library.info/pge3/arena_supermundus.shtml) The creatia that spills into Oblivion via these star-portals is brought to NIRN and collected by "Stones" (myth-echo of the original Zero Stone, the impossipoint of the Convention of the Dawn Era) and spread via a "Tower" (a myth-echo of the original Zero Tower, which was/is Akatosh's space ship that would later be called Direnni Tower on the Isle of Balfiera in the Iliac Bay, Daggerfall). (http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia_facts.shtml)

However, before creatia gets to NIRN, it must go through Oblivion, as stated supra. The Daedric Princes used the same principle of harnessing spilling creatia from Oblivion to become their realms. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia_facts.shtml)

Control of a Tower is control over parts of creation itself. Your question has merit, my friend, and hopefully (JHUNAL willing) so does my answer. I take my leave of you now. In the name Julianos and all the Divines, I say unto thee "seek forgiveness for your sins, O ye faithful! Offend not against the laws of Man or God. For none but must tremble, when ye contemplate that Julianos is Just!"

Until the Divines deign our paths to cross again, I remain....

Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos


EDIT: AstionM beat me to the punch. You may trust in his wisdom, muthsera.

ahhh i see, to be honest though assuming that the ability to change these realms is unlimited then there is no real difference between creating and changing as the results are the same.

also according to "The Anuad" the aedra came about after creation from the mingled blood of both Padomay and Anu

Conflicting answers...hmm...I guess that means you have to think for yourself and come up with your own conclusions. I know its hard, but you can do it!

lol, yeah i always find conflicting answers when i look into lore :s

your "A Treatise on Daedra of the Lesser Variety" is pretty interesting.

the only difference between dadera and aedra that i see are that the daedra inhabit oblivion and the aedra inhabit mundus. apart from that, gods are gods. i think the whole creation or change thing is a load of mortal cods wallop.

The Daedra are not allies with each other, at least not all. In fact they fight each other rather happily. There's not a single stable pattern in their allegiances tho. You can see that some of them worked with Tribunal to an extent (including the 3 corners, excluding Dagon). They also seem to be constantly struggling with each other in petty fights.

So, Stendarr and Boethiah could potentially be allies. Whether this is possible from the POV of an Aedra actually DOING something of their own will is a different matter (they are half-dead).

Don't forget however that Daggerfall got retconned in many ways. For example almost all gods had Ebonarm as enemy which as far as we're concerned in 3E400+ doesn't even exist.

However it is still fishy as to why would God of Mercy and Righteous rule ally with his arch enemy the god of Plots and Unlawful overthrow of Authority.

You've never really been to High Rock, have you?

Lol true, it's a morass of political infighting worse than the MG

Wasn't he supposed to be building an army in his realm to prevent the daedric invasion prophisised in the elder scrolls? he one that happened in oblivion? so much for ebonarm i guess..

tbh with tes lore im beginning to think that their arnt many right answers, more like multiple truths (reality's) kinda like daggerfalls multiple endings and the warp in the west, what happened? everything. its all grey.

Yes, basically, you seem pretty spot on. Aedra and Daedra are very...limited terms. I can name at least five gods that don't neatly fit into one of those categories.

Lorkhan
Magnus
Meridia
Malacath
Jyggalag

At a certain point it is best to just ignore those terms and find better ways to understand TES.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "Aedra" and "Daedra" ("our ancestors" and "not our ancestors") is a relic of Altmer politics, an embracing and a shunning based on preference, and not actual history. And the view isn't even without controversy. Veloth lead a whole crowd of dissenters away from the Altmer, and their descendants live in Morrowind to this day.

Aaaah, indeed. While I hate that sometimes because I'm a guy that likes to find a RIGHT answer based on some logic, those are too far in-between in TES.

The OP may or may not care anymore, but I'd like to re-ask the question: Why are they allied in the Illiac Bay? This isn't asking whether or not they would be, but what circumstances lead to them being so at that time?


~TK.R

A dev threw dice when he was making gods allies. Seriously, Daggerfall should be considered non-canonical in most aspects, I'm playing it ATM. and it's a completely different world.

The history of empire and mortals is pretty much same, but gods and other aspects are completely different, and retconned heavily.

Why? IT came first. Maybe its Morrowind and Oblivion that should be non-canonical.

The fact is, they are allied in Daggerfall and thus it is truth in TES. You can't just pretend it didn't happen beacuse it doesn't synergize well with the way Morrowind and Oblivion portrayed things. That's Morrowind's fault. Using your logic, we should be rid of half of Morrowind's (good) lore beacuse Oblivion decided it was too complicated and contradicted it.

Pfft...We all know Arena's lore was best.

If what daggerfall says is true then Arkay was a mortal and there's no nineth god. The Eight are allied with the Daedra and their knights shout "by Oblivion's name" (happened to me not so long ago).

Daggerfall introduced a great heap of lore, and most of the mortal/historical one is valid to this point, but the game itself and it's NPCs and dialogues and view on gods and the whole universe is simply different from later games.

Btw. where does Oblivion contradict Morrowind's lore? I don't know of any such thing.

I understand your point on not fitting neatly with every god except Meridia. What's her/his story?

meridia is a child of magnus.