If Peryite would be involved in making the next Kalpa, then ordering the lowest orders would be vital. It looks like, since this Kalpa-cycle seems to be different, it's gonna be messy as all hell.

I always knew that Peryite's metaphysical imatation of akatosh was for a reason.

EDIT: these guys are brilliant dungeon masters

This would also reinforce the notion that the up-and-coming aedra aren't identical to their counterparts in the previous world, since Vivec isn't exactly the spitting image of Mephala, or Seht of Azura.

Perhaps this is where the Daedra of the next world come from. Way back when when we were first starting to look at the Wheel models it was posed that there was a 1 to 2 relationship between the Aedra and Daedra where the two Daedra each embodied a certain trait as relative to the Aedra.

This makes it out to be more of a 1:1 ratio, where the emergence of the Aedra might create an equal reaction on the opposite side, and these reactions manifest themselves as Daedra.

It's of note that the order being looked at is order of nature, not order of time. Lorkhan's death and Jyg's curse come first, not chronologically, but naturally.

One may glean that Lorkhan's death and Jyg's curse occur simultaneously, since both are said to cause Sheo. To take it a step further one may assume they are the same event. But what is the event? I'd say the event is creation, which was the cause of both Jyg and Sheo's existence. Jyg comes first naturally, but only because Auriel comes first naturally; Lorkhan/Sheo simply follows suit.

I wonder if the situation with Peryite can't all be interpreted a lot more simply: in "ordering the lowest orders of Oblivion," he simply ends up at the top when the hourglass is turned?

/wayovermyhead

I hope Chimere and TMK have more to post yet, in any case.

16 Sun's Dawn, 4E 14
Isle of Caecilly
High Rock

To the venerable Lord Idhdean Vindasel, Xarxes Warden, Councilor:

I write to you regarding matters of the highest priority, and for the moment, confidentiality. The messenger with whom I send this letter holds the proper documentation and sigils for admission into the Thaumagnosiam. I believe the matter conferred worthy of hearing on the council floor and trust you will examine what follows with care and discernment.

As you may be aware the Isle of Caecilly has returned once again to the continent of Tamriel, not to its residence off the western coasts of High Rock but to the north. I write to you now from its meadows, chilled in the glassy frost which drifts in from the Azurian Sea, within sight of the old Andrelheimoth Keep and the Nordic ships which sail from Solitude around the tip of Northpoint to the Iliac. The exact reasoning for its relocation I cannot say, only that it is here.

Of even more import than the fact of its return is the return of its master. For a fortnight I've discoursed with its master on all manner of subject, from the mundane to the mystic, the metaphysical to the mythic, that of our plane and those beyond. One thing seems manifestly clear, the influence of the cosmic influx which has set in upon the outset of the new era. You've seen the college's restricted reports on the Asylums, what hushed whispers we've had of a peculiar event termed the Greymarch. Now we have the rebirth of the old Dominion, and if the gleanings of this island's master hold true, we will soon witness the rise of Alduin in the north; I'm sure you are aware of Nordic superstition, I write to say that its truth is becoming beyond question. In the words of Chimere, Master of Caecilly: "the void realms reverberate with echoes, an echo which settles itself here on Nirn; sound travels faster than time and so serves as a warning. Order ever seeks the dominance of uniformity; first over the void, and then the Mundus. The cycle which we witness will strike our own shores, not in crystal, but in dragon's fire. The image of Talos stands with shield raised against it but is opposed on all sides - in bringing one dragon into subjection it's mirror kin rise up to destroy him for he protects the world."

The superficial authenticity of these words cannot be doubted. Even under the reign of the Septims we witnessed the Talos Cult forced into basemant shrines, only later did we learn of our infiltration by the Dagonites. Have we not learned our lesson? Agents of the new Dominion enter councils as emissaries and advisers; already they're taking back their former lands, and now we show hints of letting them take ours through conversion of ideas, and for what, diplomatic commonality? That we may sacrifice our gods in the hope of peace?

The enemy will not rest with mere ideological appeasemant, the advancement will continue on land till Talos' blessing is wiped from the map and we will see that the enemy has outmaneuvered us; should we beat back the forces of the one even as we bury our dead we will turn to see his brother has arisen behind our ranks. Should you doubt the veracity of my statements I bring with me the bloodied signet rings of two Thalmor agents who came to Caecilly Isle fearing the knowledge of its master, of the implications of their actions and the full sway of their influence against our fledgling empire.

I shall be leaving for Cyrodiil shortly, first for my residence in Skingrad and then for the Imperial City to meet with you (and then if you deem it necessary, with the council). I have attached relevant sections of my correspondence with the master of Caecilly that you may have a clearer understanding of the patterns being considered and look forward to meeting with you upon my arrival.

Faithfully,
Tal Marog Ker - Chief Artificer of Extracts, University of Gwylim

Sealed: Chimere Graegyn - Master Sorcerer, Summoner & Direnni Retainer

Oh man, it'll rule if we can visit Caecilly in Skyrim...

Edit: Taking into account that the game will be set almost 200 years after 4E 14; if Caecilly is still around, then it has come back for a reason.

but who has it right? Humans or the Altmer, or does it only depend on perspective?

If Caecilly is in Skyrim, it ain't on the http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/10/skyrimmap.jpg.

I think we've found our first DLC.

Maybe the Psijic priest have it right. The Daedra were just special mortals in a previous life. Maybe that's how they're generated.... LOVE this tread by the way! Can't believe I'm just now finding it.

They're different narratives draqed over a set of events. The narrative is nice but ultimately not important. What matters are the underlying events.

How are the other two still alive? Didn't they die a mortals death after losing their divinity? Wouldn't they have gone back to the dreamsleeve, or did they have enough power to stop that from incurring?

Also once the Adera are released from the Earth-Bones where do they go?

They're not released. The earth bones are the parts of their body they sacrificed to Mundus. Then depending on the narrative the gods became mortal procreated and eventually died or ascended.

Quick? Relative to whom?..... lol

"Also, Martin mantled Akatosh" What exactly does Mantle mean?

"I will say that, CHIM or not, there is no evidence that either Talos nor Vehk achieved Amaranth"

What is "Amaranth" I'm guessing it's when the sleeping Godhead wakes up. Is that right?

I know this might not be the best place for these questions but the topics in this thread have made me want to reread a number of things posted by Michael Kirkbride

ascended to where? Aetherius?

What I was thinking too.

I admit to blending together Auri-El/the Aedra more broadly when I said they were released. It does raise the question, however, whether Alduin actually becomes the "Free Serpent" and returns to Aetherius, or some such, as the Altmer imply in the purge-Talos-from-the-mythic MK posting [and therefore he has a conscious intention (eating himself out of his prison) in ending this kalpa], or whether it is simply natural forces doing their thing, innate to Mundus, and the Altmer are just taking advantage of the fact/projecting their myths on the event.

MK said that Amaranth deserves its own discussion, but that was a long time ago, and for all I know, it already got it. I always understood it as when the CHIM-reacher goes off and repeats the initial action of the "godhead" in their own mind/universe (wails given life and all that).

And, whether Alduin is just a metaliteral wrecking ball or not, the High Elves seem perfectly content to help him/it out.

So, with the information from the latest letter... does this mean Jyggalag is Alduin?? I got confused around that point, I'll have to give it another look.

It means the greymarch is connected with the end of the kalpa.

He describes himself as off the coast of High Rock, near Northpoint, which isn't within that map's scope.

5 First Seed, 4E 14
Isle of Betony
High Rock

To Chimere Graegyn,

My ship has been lost. A tempest of strange precision cast us ashore in the night and my journey is delayed. A handful of the crew were lost as well, though I'm certain we were close enough to the isle to be secure from any influence of Thras. Of other influence I cannot say. As I make talk to locals at a nearby tavern they tell old tales of the dragons which used serve the Empire during days of old. They were the red dragons of the empire, whom were later described as possibly taking the form of man; shapeshifting is hardly unheard of but it tickled my ears to hear the old tales, though perhaps the bottle of flin aided my attitude. One question plagues my mind though, a question brought on by the old tales, if it takes a being such as Talos or the HoonDing to subdue or defeat but a mundane dragon, what hope do men have when their king comes, a beast so large as to swallow mountains? If legend speaks truth this stands beyond hope, save for circumventing its advent before it becomes unbound.

I have bought passage aboard a trading vessel of Wayrest which I should be able to take as far as Anvil. An aide of mine from the University is standing-by there to take me the rest of the way to my destination.

Faithfully,
TMK

14 Stendarr's Star
3rd Passing

To Tal Marog Ker,

The tides of fate move against you my friend, it would have the truths of this world become cast off with those of the last, failed pathways. We must test it and disprove its standing as fate.

The myths are more than truth, not because they tell us the dragon exists, but because they tell us the dragon can be vanquished. It may be fought however it bulks over the cosmos, though it be greater than Adamantia or High Hrothgar, should it be as big as the world it must yet be slain in the name of the world. One need not consider any proportions in the mythic scale of things, but only the original secret of their schematics - Hjalti may shake his axe at the dragon even if the empty heavens above his head are only the monstrous arch of its open jaws; to the spirit which has stripped off its temporal standards the enemy is of one flesh.

I drink to your safe passage.

Yours,
Chimere Graegyn
Isle of Caecilly
High Rock

this smells like an actual battle with Alduin at the end of Skyrim... better bring a lot of arrows.