Since Morrowind, I have always wanted race and birthsign attribute points to be a bonus added to the total, not a head start, even past 100 attribute point for a true difference in races when all attributes are maxed out.

Agreed, but ponder this if you will...


Will that apply to TES? Maybe, time will tell.

That might make those birth signs worth while on the balance scale. The magika ones seem to be the only ones that give anything worth a damn right now IMO, and that is because it does increase the max.

I really Hope that this will apply to TESV. It would be good to reach 125+ in a skill and become the Secret Master of that skill

I don't want the racial stats to give you a headstart, but throughout the game I think you should be able to raise your racial preferred stats faster than another race trying the same thing.

I believe race stats should give you a head start while birth signs should act like bonuses.

I agree. I want to become the best at certain skills.

And by the best, I mean so far ahead of the competition it's ridiculous.

you could actually get skills over 100 in Oblivion, like if you had everything at 100 and you got some perk or became a vampire

The head start makes sense though. A Orc is going to be innately stronger than a Bosmer, so it would make no sense for them to start off at the same strength level with the Orc simply being able to get stronger in the long run. An Orc should start out stronger than a Bosmer, because Orcs are stronger than Bosmer. Just like Altmer should start off smarter than Orcs, and Khajiit should start out faster than Nords.

Granted, there should also be a bonus added to the total, since it's unlikely the strongest Bosmer is ever going to be as strong as the strongest Orc.

This is a good idea.

This is what I meant lol, I like both the headstart and bonus.

True. That's been a major flaw with previous Elder Scrolls games in my opinion.

I think it's a great idea. Most of the time, I picked the coolest looking race, and the birth sign that sounded the best, because it didn't make a difference what one I picked, I could always get the effected skills up on my own. This would add a real reward for picking s certain birth sign or race.

This.

I like this idea and I do think attributes should work like bonuses.

BTW in the PC you can always use cheats :ph34r:

YES! In fact, it is counterproductive to choose a race/sign that adds relevant skill and attribute bonuses, since that reduces the number of times you can level up! If I start with Major skills that are boosted because of race/birthsign choices, then I will have a lower final character level because I have a fewer number of times I can level up those skills. It is a horrible oversight on Bethesda's part.

As mentioned, these bonuses should also include bonuses to attributes given by race selection. If an Orc has 20 more STR than a khajiit, then when attributes are maxed out, the Orc should have 120, and the khajiit only 100. In other words: maxed attribute/skill = 100 + deviation from normal starting attribute/skill level. Deviation can be + or -.

I would prefer the way it is but remove the 100 point level cap completely on both skills and attrubutes.
That way your skill bonused and attribute bonuses from your race and birthsign help you in the begining while not hurting you later on.

Real, actual bonuses? Yes please!

Finally a suggestion I can agree with.

Although, I mostly want it to make the birthsign still matter after the lower levels. All the birthsign with special powers still have a "function" at higher level, while birthsigns like The Lady are only useful at lower levels.

Hmmmm. I'm not so sure. Birthsigns I think should be bonuses, but I don't want to be forced to play as a certain race just to max out a certain archetype.

Exactly what I have always wanted

This.

There is also one more thing that annoys me in TES games when it comes to attributes and stuff is how you start with almost 60 in pretty much every attribute. I think it would be cooler and more interesting and maybe even challenging if we started with something around 20-35. So you get the feeling that you are weak and you are going to have to work your skills up if you wanna go out and have no troubles while exploring.

I'd like that quite a bit.

December 28, 2010: Finally a thread addressing one of my main beefs with the horrible racial stats since Morrowind (Daggerfall was non-existent).

This of course requires careful planning, since we're dealing with math in different parts of many equations. So, eg, an Orc has a Strength bonus of 20 (just example), but we want Redguards to be the best Swordsman possible, then the +15 Redguards would get to Long Blade would impact slightly more for him at 100 Strength and 115 Long Blade than it would for an Orc at Str 120 and Long Blade 105.

Greater Strength would thus allow to be a slightly better melee damage dealer, until someone with greater skill proficiency like above could take the final numbers to a higher level. Now which race should have, say, Endurance bonus, Blunt bonus, etc.... That would be a cool discussion. For instance, I'd take it that Khajiits start weith the highest possible Hand to Hand (115) and Speed (120)....

I think it should only apply to attributes, because that is more of a physical characteristic that could be the result of genetics. Skills on the other hand are learned, and experience in them is what makes them higher. The strongest Bosmer may not be as strong as the strongest Orc, due to physical limitations, but a Bosmer that is a master at Blunt would have the same level of mastery as an Orc, because that is a learned skill. Due to less maximum strength they still would never be as effective with Blunt of course, but skills should have equal maximums.

This is perfect. The bonus part should apply to Skills.