Provinces of Tamriel claims that Cyrodiil is mainly jungle with deciduous forest yet the in-game representation of Cyrodiil is clearly temperate forest. Is the book correct in terms of lore or should it's statement be dismissed?

That little bit has quite plainly been retconned, before Oblivion it was jungle. The explanation is that Tiber Septim changed it from jungle to temperate forests...

In my opinion, the book is lore. The game, its a crappy, crappy model, from the jungle to the cities themselves. Here how I see it: either its too much work to do this or they just ditch the idea altogether and add on a lame excuse. I would not be surprises if in the next game, they would mention Cyrodiil is a jungle again.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1030015

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1015177

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1025972

I think Oblivion is too big to just sweep under the carpet like that. Plus I don't think most of the devs really had a problem with the makeover, it was mostly die-hard fans of old school lore.

Ah thank you.
And Luagar, where in the game is it stated that 'Tiber Septim did it'?

EDIT- /\ mythic dawn commentaries book 3,look for CHIM.
Well at least they added the CHIM explanation instead of pretending it was never a jungle.

Probably because there weren't any devs from Morrowind, Daggerfall, and Arena on the team by the time TESIV was being made!

Well, except for Todd Howard, but he doesn't count (in my book, at least).

Honestly? I'm not as certain. A flatout "okay we're changing this" retcon is sometimes preferable to hashing up the lore and claiming one of the Gods interfered. For the record, I much preferred the idea of Cyrodiil being temperate forest. In my mind it better suits the racial and cultural theme of the Imperials. Plus, there are plenty of 'exotic' locations in Tamriel already, and it's nice to go back to a more traditional fantasy world after a game like Morrowind.

As if that theme doesn't appear in 1000s of RPGs already...

<_<

The 'racial and cultural themes' are precisely what were trashed and turned into tearfully shallow and cliched pap. The deciduous forest fits the vacuous nothing that Oblivion depicted the Imperials as (although he process started with Morrowind).

The important changes relate to the Imperials. The climate was a relatively unimportant backdrop to the setting that was jettisoned, but it is seized as a symbol of Oblivion's failure in this regard, often by people who never read the previous lore anyway. (like most of the devs :violin: )

It's worth noting that there are still books in Oblivion which describe Cyrodiil as 'endless jungle.' The sole explanation we have was provided in an unofficial context by the writer who crafted much of the previous image of the province, not the dev team. Oblivion's creators don't care enough about the lore to explain themselves and would prefer that we don't dwell on it.

And that's my screed for this week.

TES may bring a few of its own original parts, but it still relies quite heavily on other old ideas. Elves, swords, wizards, malevolent Gods. It's not necessarily a bad thing, is it?



If I remember correctly they weren't exactly a 'race' in their own right in the earliest games, and with Arena being mostly randomly generated, the landscape wasn't thoroughly detailed. Personally, I like the way the Imperials have developed, even if it means having to alter lore. I'd rather it to quick fixes as they can lead to inconsistencies.

It is when lore says a place is jungle but is converted to the typical RPG BS in its game depiction.

The Imperials have been a race for over a decade. And they have not been developed, rather the opposite. Less and simpler detail over time. They have been devolved into a caricature, with the in-game depiction at odds with most of what has been added since their inception.

A decade is only 10 years and the imperials have been a race for a millenium now

That's because the Imperials have been greatly copied on Roman culture with Morrowind, which wasn't the case when the first Pocket Guide of the Empire was released. If I recall correctly, the First Pocket Guide mentioned that the Imperials were much closer to an indigenious race which fits perfectly with the jungle landscape. I couldn't imagine Romanesque Imperials living in a jungle, nor would I imagine indigenious Imperials living in the current Cyrodiil's climate.

I recall an interview done with one of the devs dating back from Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind (Possibly Redguard as well) who mentioned that a disagreement occured between him and one of the other current Devs. He wanted the Imperials to be a unique, original race while the other Dev wanted the Imperials to be un-original and copied from the Romans culture, and he won. The interview was very interesting, showed some excellent points of views between the original devs and the new ones. The dev's name was Douglas Goodall.
The interview was posted on the Imperial Library and another Ex-dev asked it to be removed, alas!

Too bad we'll never see the Imperials as they were described in the First Pocket Guide. They've been simplified, their culture became much less interesting and the world they live in a boring landscape to explore.

As for what to believe in terms of Lore, we have no choice but to take what Beth has done with Oblivion. Unless that young Prince Attrebus from the books decides to change Cyrodiil to a jungle by spitting fire to burn the trees and throw in seeds on the soil.

He was referring to the fact that Imperials didn't exist in Arena or Daggerfall, Bethesda came up with them sometime after that (I think they were in Redguard, but don't quote me on that)

I'm not too upset that Cyrodil is no longer a jungle as i didn't take away that image from MW's in game books.

To the south of Tamriel you have black marsh and Valenwood (jungle), skyrim to the north (cooler if not frozen), and it makes sense to me that Cyrodil is temperate.

In a world with so many different and somewhat extreme cultures, i feel kind of secure when i see imperials as familiar and centred.

Were people put off as much as the change in lore, or the decision to make it a cliched, green grassed fantasy realm?

I think it was both of those.

was the book written before Septim?

I believe the book was supposed to have been written when Tiber Septim was still the emperor, before his apotheosis.

It would be after his apotheosis and Chim, hence the reference. It is still contemporary with Tiber's reign.

i suppose the endless jungle bit doesn't make much sense for the center of the empire to be so secluded from the rest of the provinces. though i did imagine the imperial city more like tenochtitlan...but that just wouldn't mesh with the likes of daggerfall's medieval setting.

i rather liked the colovian highlands, and wished that the colovian lord bit wasn't completely cut from oblivion, and could've been a DLC. seems like there's some town missing in the eastern province too, which could've been more nibean.

What was Tenochtitlan if not an imperial capital, surrounded by wilderness, nestled in a secluded valley? It quite possibly wouldn't mesh well, because Cyrodiil isn't High Rock.