I know what you mean. In my first playthrough, I never set foot in either Dawnstar or Falkreath. In my second playthrough, I've only been through Falkreath in my quest for the stones of Barenziah and Dawnstar to drop something off that I stole from a Stormcloak courier.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT LOL THANKS

Did you level enchanting/alchemy/conjuration/illusion/stealth, there's your problem!

When he said "level smithing" he meant grinding. You know? That thing that MMO players do because they want to be better than everyone else? Not viable in a single player game.

Oh my, you didn't, did you? Well, it's nice to know that one of the malcontents also happens to be terribly confused on what an RPG is. I loved Diablo, but an RPG it is not. It's as much an action hack-n-slash as the botched Baldur's Gate for the original Xbox (which I liked too, by the way, but it wasn't the Baldur's Gate of yore... a real RPG). Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges.

And grinding any of these other skills will also make the game incredibly easy, which is my point. The game is not designed to be "fair", it's for fun. If you have no self-control, you have less fun.

Fair point, then. And very true. In a game like Skyrim, self control is a must if you don't want your experience ruined... which is probably where people like Smokeyman have gone wrong.

Where do you draw the line between Self-control, and cutting key features though?

For example, I really love smithing/crafting, but just using it naturally breaks the game. I think that needs to be fixed, on the flips side, crafting exploits (Necromage Artisan/Fortify Restoration) are a lot easier to define as an exploit, and just not use.

Here's what I do for smithing...

One unit per game day.
- Daggers: 1 unit
- Rings: 0.5 unit
- Necklaces: 0.5 unit
- Circlets: 1 unit
- One-handed: 1 unit
- Two-handed: 2 units
- Bows: 1 unit
- Shields: 3 units
- Armour: 3 units

I guess it all depends on your definition of "using it naturally". I thought that's what I did on my first character.... and I didn't max out smithing until the high 40's, some 80 hours in. And that was even with a concerted "Ok, I want to see dragonscale" push for the last 20 points - I spent three levels specifically just going through mines/gathering ore/killing wildlife for leather. Strongest weapon I ended up with did ~110 damage.

Smithing "Naturally" means using everything but exploits. So Full Enchant and Full alchemy plus perks and skill. I think that the recipes for various types of armor and weapons (Elven, Ebony, Glass, etc) should have been granted by doing quests and learning the "Techniques" from a blacksmith. Having the recipes and the +100% fortify effect intertwined kind of svcks, since I can't craft stuff without then breaking the game.

Ah. Whereas the only external buffs I used were potions or enchanted gear that I had found. Using enchanting actively wouldn't have helped, because that character didn't perk it... couldn't make anything that wasn't terribly weak, even with Grand souls.

Especially at high levels, the smithing perks kill the balance.

I just don't use Smithing Perks at all, and I find the "Balance" is a lot more reasonable in the game. I can still become extremely powerful, but it requires a more narrow focus on your build. If you want to one-shot most enemies in direct combat, without Smithing Perks, you really have to enchant Attack power at every turn. With Smithing Perks, you can pretty much achieve that with no supplemental gear.

I would've thought that "smithing naturally" meant using just the materials, equipment (forge, smelter, etc.) and perks from the Smithing tree only; no enchantments, potions or ingredients to help you.

That's technically limited smithing. Considering you can go to a shop and buy equipment for fortify Smithing and a potion with Fortify smithing, I don't see how it's not natural.

For my character it's natural. He doesn't even buy the ingots. From mining the ingots and collecting the hides to forging the desired item, he does it all in unenchanted clothes and without any potions. And yeah, this is the same character that I use the limits mentioned on the last page for

Post limit and all that.