Not all. In fact most isn't. But a major point is that regardless, the Enclave had a hand in its initial development ie. Plasma rifles were created by both Enclave scientists (the MLPX Novasurge Plasma Pistol) as well as through contracts in the military industrial complex (REPCON).

Post-War Tech for the Enclave however, also includes Vertibirds (fully developed on the Rig), APA (as you mentioned which includes variants such as Hellfire Armor, Telsa MK II and APA MKII), Urban Plasma Rifles (developed by REPCON but fully developed by the Enclave), Hellfire Incinerators, Photonic resonance barriers, mobile light-weight defensive structures, and Enclave Mindcontrol devices (for uses on Deathclaws). Not to mention their developments in the chemical sector with both the Curling-13 Virus and later the Modified FEV virus.

We can also assume, given these sorts of developments, that the Enclave has been conducting vast amounts of research into various fields. Thus their scientific knowledge is far greater than what the Brotherhood possess. More than likely there are various technologies that they posses which haven't been revealed yet either.

Besides this, a major point is that the Enclave can manufacture all of this. Post-War.

Which one represents who

Neither for we are Legion

enclave of course! they are one of those "cool" if your part of them, "svcks if your not" kinda factions! They where the only faction to date that had the remote possibility of restoring the US of A as it used to be. However that was in Fallout 2, what you see of them in FO3 is a joke. Mostly since the Oil rig and Navarro where the ONLY places the Enclave where at and they never numbered more then a few thousand at best. (Oil rig had a single Vault built in.) If the Fallout 2 Enclave took on the New Vegas NCR I think they would have taken them, for the mere fact that they would have been much smarter going about how they fought then the BoS. they would have used Mercs, also known the locations of spots like HELIOS One and how it get it working right away to use to there advantage. they would also sport a large robot force as well. The http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sentry_bot_%28Fallout_2%29 of Falluot 2 are much more dangerous the there FO3/NV counterparts.

The Enclave can't win because it would be game over for everyone in the wasteland but it doesn't mean there couldn't be a way to join them. If you are talking about Fallout 3 which has very bad writing.. there could have been a way to join the Enclave, or at least help them and not still be attacked by them. Fallout, you can even help the Master if you wanted to, but the game does end. Then you are shown being lowered into the FEV vats and see the super mutants overrunning Vault 13.

The Brotherhood in Fallout 3 are white knight morons, and the Enclave are emotionless (Robot like) and evil. They were just parodies of what they once were.

:facepalm: If the Enclave are set-up are really powerful and the only way to have them win is to have some of the worst, most-pitiful defenses ever seen then it is bad writing.

Oh, let me explain. :grad:

If the only way to have the supposedly most powerful and well trained army beaten is to make them just suicide themselves behind sandbags against a giant walking - and therefore inherantly weak - robot then it's bad writing, stupid even; don't set things up to be so good if you can't then show it. Any real leader would have thought, "Hmmm, giant walking robot, maybe I should blow the [censored] out of it's legs. Instead Take it Back opens with three Vertibirds coming up from behind Prime, two of which fly past Prime and get shot and the thrid stops dead in-front of it to pathetically shoot it with it's lasers when it has missiles and mini-nukes; it's a scene set-up to show how awesome Prime is but is something nobody trained for a proper military would do, especially when they started they were right behind Prime and had the best chance to attack.

So it is bad writing, piss poor, [censored]e as-it-were and lazy. BoS Paladins lamenting that their bullets might not even penetrate Enclave Power Armor even though the basic combat mechanics of the very game mean that you always cause damage no matter what you attack with; don't make people say or do things or set-up them up as such just to fall flat.

As for the topic on hand, whats the point? What's the context? Why compare two factions who's only similarity is in weapons and nothing else. Enclave I guess.

Don't forget the wonderful plot hole caused by Broken Steal. Enclave get their ass kicked at Project Purity by Optimus Prime, but then manage to destroy it in BS with a spaced based laser cannon... So why didn't they do that when it was attacking project purity? Or better yet just use it to take out the brotherhood base before everything got started?

Also another wonderful plot hole.. No matter what you do in BS, the Enclave get destroyed. Even if you decide to attack the Brotherhood.

I know right, you really have to wonder what these people are thinking when they come up with things. You really have to wonder what sadistic bastard thought:

"Here's an idea, if they destroy the Citadel instead of Adams go back and remove the door and access ramp to the Crawler, just because you know?"

Oh how could we ever forget that little gem.....

I still remember my train of thought when I targeted the Citadel:

Me: Finally! Eat orbital ballistic missiles you BOS bastards!

*warning sirens go off*

Me: Wait.....what?

*outside, missle bombardment*

Me: (My face): http://rlv.zcache.com/are_you_kidding_me_postcard-p239624637127123172z8iak_152.jpg

Really?



Well said. :foodndrink:

I still want to see this back in "properly" : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_Power_Armor_%28Fallout_2%29

19 DT and 90 DR vs. Laser weapons, Then the BoS would have something to cry about!

I stand corrected. Odd that most of this stuff comes from Fallout 3 though. Apparently the Enclave had one hell of a tech surge at Raven Rock.

I think its plausible that a good portion of it was developed on the Rig first. We just didn't get to see it in Fallout 2 (for obvious reasons).

But Raven Rock was always second only to the Oil Rig in terms of industrial capacity (from what we've seen). The Enclave stayed in RR for over 30 years after all, not much to do really but research and development.

Wouldn't Raven Rock/Purifier and AAFB be combined because they take place in the same game or are they two different defeats because of the two week difference.

Bethesda put it in game that Enclave Sigma troops are from outside the CW, so they can come back again and again. Expect them to become Team Rocket

May I mention that we don't even know that MW Enclave is the only Enclave left? Being the remains of the US goverment is is more than likely that the Enclave has bases/outposts scattered all across America. So far Fallout has only included the CW, WC, and Mojave. That leaves 70% of the country untouched. For all we know the Enclave may have conquered all of Texas! I'd personally be a fan of seeing the Fallout version of Disney World in Florida :hubbahubba: Mutated dolphins anyone?

We do know that there are no Enlcave all over the United States or the world for that matter! Why do we need to keep having this conversation? :banghead:

Enclave in Fallout 2 only had the Rig and Navarrow. This is confirmed in Fallout 2, Fallout 3, New Vegas and their game guides.

The Oil Rig blew up killing the entire Enclave leadership but for Eden. The Enclave at Navarro (which were few to start with) split. Some stayed to man Navarro. The others followed Augustus Sir. East to Raven Rock to find Eden. Navarro later fell to NCR and the Enclave remnants were hunted down by NCR and the Brotherood.


So Chicago was founded after Fallout 2 and before Fallout 3. The only way that this can't be the case is if Bethesda comes down with another case of "Who gives a [censored]" about canon and logic.

This ^ Soem folks should really play fallout 2 or do there homework before trying to argue points that are really way out there or just plain wrong.

I support the Enclave, and especially Colonel Autumn. As he is to destroy most severe mutations (ghouls/Supermuties) but spare the near-humans and re-integrate them into the Enclave, his plans are much more sane than the half assed genocide they had to give them in Fallout 2 to justify you mass murdering them.

Col. Autumn is every factions' better parts in one. The Enclave's technology, dedication and goals. CWBoS's methods (free water in exchange for loyalty). Much better long-term plan (rebuilding the world with only a few hundred humans results in dramatic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck, which could mean the end of human race once and for all). My inner biologist is simply against the idea of global genocide. Nothing against wiping out, say, Capital Wasteland's near-humans or even USA, but the whole world is just too black and white and short sighted.
The man himself has questionable methods but after two hundred years of constant anarchy, he is the best bet. For his actions with Eden is another story and I most sincerely wish this thread won't turn into yet another Eden vs. Autumn thread. Enclave supporters should always stick together no matter of their loyalties!

I have campaigned on behalf of the Enclave for two and a half years here. I suppose that means I'm one hell of a loyalist.

neither, but if i had to pick one BoS they arent good or bad really they are out for themselves
I really dislike the enclave not because of there goals or ways of doing things i just like mutants i dont mind evil people ruling the world just dislike the enclave for hating on mutants if they changed that one aspect of them it would ruin them but make me like them much more

Which BoS? The Original BoS, The Midwestern Brotherhood or Lyons BoS?

Also Bad news for you, they all hate and kill mutants. There is one sign of hope though. Depending on your actions in Fallout Tactics, the Midwestern Brotherhood, let mutants join them. Depending on your actions you can also betray them as well ==>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58

Guess

MWBoS is the best over every faction.