I'm very curious on the opinion from people on these two factions.

Neither, ones a group of over emotional technofetishists, the other is a group of paramilitary nutcases.

I'm with colonel martyr, neither. And I could not think of anything better than his poetic choice of words to describe them both.

If I had to choose, I would choose the Enclave. The Enclave has a method, a plan to restore stability & rebuild the Old World. Harsh methods, but a worthy goal. The Brotherhood has no plan but what has failed them, has no way to avoid destruction.

And I do have to choose, I consider just the Enclave superior to both, just he BoS, or neither.

-Nukeknockout

The Enclave.

And here's why:


1. Whats in a name? Personally their title "The Enclave" brilliantly sums up something I love about them. The fact that they are indeed an enclave, in the definition of the word, which means that they are a isolated group in the midst of a "whole lotta other crap" (that’s the technical term for the wasteland btw). The fact that they are isolationist is one thing that drew me to them. Their strategy, in my view, is amazing. They sit back and work on building their strength while waiting for the opportune moment to strike when everyone else is fighting and weakening each other. Brilliant.

2. Technology and Military Power: They are without a doubt the most advanced faction in the game universe. Their ability to develop and create new weapons, defenses, robots, and even the only aircraft in the world (the Verti-birds) makes me feel like I'm supporting a faction that knows what its doing in terms of actually being able to rebuild the ruined wastes. While others sit in squalor and twiddle their thumbs like morons (looking at you BoS), the Enclave has tech that they could never even come close to matching.

Their military strength is also something that is a sight to behold. As I said before, they are the only faction with the ability to have air-superiority and advanced logistics and mobility. Let’s face it, had Lyon's or the Chosen one not been aided by bad writing, there is no real way that either of them would have succeeded in defeating the Enclave. (orbital strike targeting the citadel). Their advanced technology also factors into their strength as a military. They are the sole (I would guess besides any pre-war ones) source of plasma rifles and plasma based weaponry in the wasteland. Maybe not necessarily in the west (plasma in Fallout 1), but the East for certain. They are able to arm even the lowest ranked of their soldiers with a least a laser rifle and Advanced Power Armor and their strongest with Hellfire armor and an incinerator. Not even the high and mighty Brotherhood that everyone seems to like so much can match this, not even by a long shot. I also don't see their "lack of numbers" as a weakness. Indeed in some ways I see it as a strength.

3. Stars and Stipe’s Forever: They are without a doubt the United States of America. The Enclave of the United States of America is not just a fancy title you know. I like how the Enclave are also related to COG (Continuity of Government) plans and how they retain control over pre-war bases and bunkers (Raven Rock and Adams AFB for example).

4. Destroy, Rebuild, and Renew: Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think. The Enclave aren't in the business of genocide for the fun of it. They are restoring the old world by removing what they see as a grave threat to the future of the human race, mutants.

Enclave had their moment in the sun (Fallout 2) and then became over done and pointless (Fallout 3). They are dead but for some remnants and their outpost(s) in Chicago.

Brotherhood were awesome in Fallout, and you can avoid them completely which I liked. Fallout 2, there is only a couple BoS in the whole game, and again you can avoid them. Fallout Tactics: Midwestern Brotherhood are the best, even better if the Barnaky ending is canon. CWBoS are over done unavoidable white knights.

So in short, they were cool but have become stupid and over done.. All but for the Midwestern Brotherhood.

Yes realistically they should be unbeatable if fallout settings was real life but its a video game. And what fun would it be playing as the Chosen One only to be killed by them game over would be a worse story in my opinion. But yes the enclave was well done in fallout2 and 3.

I really didn't like where they went with the BoS and enclave after fallout 2 turning it into good vs evil. Before the BoS just seemed like another group of people trying to survive who managed to have technology and were just seen as another group. And the Enclave was a good idea for a villain to fight.

If it weren't for fallout3 I would have said BoS.

And I agree with Styles the fallout tactics BoS in tactics is badass, and would probably be a match against enclave realistically IF there was no orbital strikes, or if they managed to stop it as it was done in broken steel storyline. And that is the Midwestern BoS I think would be able to take on enclave realistically because they had tanks and other technology.

Of course and I understand that, but my point is that the Enclave is powerful enough to the point where the only way the writers can think to kill them off is by utilizing some interesting convenient plot points which often times don't really make sense (aka how did the Enclave not notice a massive tanker docking at the Rig?)

Or alternatively just have a giant mecha bot and the player character kill them off. :spotted owl:

The Brotherhood of Steel!

1. True Neutral is better than Lawful Evil. I'm a karmic man. Do good things, good things happen. Do bad things, bad things happen. The BoS might not always do right, but they aren't doing bad either. They have a mission, and it will lead them in a good, advanced society. The Enclave think that by doing mass genocide, they will end up in a good, advanced society. But this leads me to my next point:

2. The Enclave are hypocrites and are as mindful as the Master. The reason that the Enclave considers everyone but them a mutant is because the FEV is in the air, so everyone has some form of mutation, whether it be full blown super mutant or some kind of harmless biological difference from most humans. Even though they might say that they aren't doing mass genocide for but for a brighter future, they could try to find a cure for FEV. They could try to modify Rad-X or RadAway, but instead they resorted to mass genocide. They are nothing worse than the Nazis because even the Nazis tried to experiment to get rid of some traits they considered bad (although their experiments were pretty much murder also). The Enclave developed modified FEV that was meant to kill "mutants" instead of modify the FEV to fix "mutants" (although they did believe they were fixing mutants). The Enclave are all around bad planners. How do they expect to fix the world when they are done cleaning it? There's piles of radiation every where. How will they be able to clean up the radiation if by going into high irradiated places, they will either die or mutate? They could easily enslaved the so called "mutants".

3. Rule of Cool. The Enclave are United States-Nationalist that considers everything besides them as a mutant. Their armor makes them look like bug-eyed demons and their guns make the same noise a bubble makes when it's formed. The Brotherhood are badass super soldier Technology-Lovers with some lawful beliefs. If the Brotherhood were more like the NCR, they would of probably ruled the United States by now, but could care less about society. At least the Brotherhood is a large and successful organization. The Enclave's nothing but remnants and a couple of old men who brought shame upon their families.

Hoarding tech (and not anything but military tech mind you) by taking it from anyone and anything because they have a misplaced sense of entitlement and then doing nothing with it but either losing it in battle or stashing it in their own bunkers is going to lead to a "good, advanced society"?

Please. Enlighten me.



Which Brotherhood?

Since the Western BOS seems to have gotten itself into a mess of trouble by thinking it could take on the NCR in a conventional war and is now slowly ebbing way.

Don't see how that counts as "large and successful".

Not to mention that the Enclave has had more tech and resources in their history than the Brotherhood could ever have (unless they stole it from the Enclave that is).



Well I give up.

Damn, I guess I misplaced my support huh?

Good lord what was I thinking supporting a faction with weapons that make bubble noises?

(Also what kind of bubbles are you blowing that sound like plasma weaponry being discharged?)



See:

Colonel Augustus Autumn

How's the Enclave any different than the BoS hoarding technology? The BoS has their reasons: they want to salvage it for the future in order to make a future for everyone, unlike the Enclave who wishes to always use the technology for themselves.

The eastern and most likely midwest BoS is much more successful than the NCR, at least formed together. The NCR is very successful, I'd give you that. If NCR was an option, I'd probably choose them because they were able to get things up and running within the 200 year period, unlike the BoS, but I don't like choosing the neither option. The eastern and western BoS are vastly different. The Midwest BoS is more like the western BoS than the east. The eastern BoS aren't too bright, but they have more going for them than the Enclave.

The Enclave has more tech and resources and still manages to lose each time they try to do something.

The Enclave make their own.

They don't scavenge it like common raiders or prospectors.




I think you better check their mission statement again.

The actual ideals of the BOS state nothing about giving that technology back to the people, indeed they don't think those people are worthy of handling it.

the main Brotherhood is strongly paranoid, and not only seeks to preserve technology but actively remove it from outsiders, is disinterested in nonmilitary assets, and engages in little if any work to actually improve their tech.



Fallout 3 Scribe Rothchild:

"The Midwest BOS has fallen on hard times." (paraphrasing)

First and Foremost though, neither the CWBOS or the MWBOS are truly "BOS" in the sense that they were both cut off from the elders in the west (forcibly, the MWBOS was sent west to get rid of them).

Secondly, even then the NCR has much more resources at this point than every BOS chapter combined with a population of 700,000 to boot.



For reasons that either

1. include the player character killing them off

or

2. Include a giant mecha bot that does all the work.

The BOS simply lost because they chose to fight the NCR and was defeated conventionally. There wasn't a giant robot scrapping their troops.

Think on this, no faction has ever come as close to total victory as the Enclave did in Fallout 2. They were just hours away from deploying the Curling-13 virus.

No faction has also come back again after three major defeats as the Enclave has (Fallout 2, Raven Rock-Purifier, and now AAFB). Although now they are likely reduced to a small force in Chicago, they are still around.

So does that the BoS has better technology? I guess not entirely. They have one working major super weapon, compared to minor super weapons compared to it.

I also think what you just said proves the NCR are the best.

The BoS could beat the Enclave with a super weapon, but the Enclave and BoS are usually at equal odds.

The BoS would lose if they tried to attack the NCR head on, which also means the Enclave would most likely.

NCR is the best.

Not sure what you mean here.



Currently they are the best in terms of resources. Of that I have no doubt.

The Enclave would have been hard pressed to beat them at the height of their power in a conventional battle. The NCR simply has too many troops at their disposal. The BOS found that out the hard way.



Not really.

The BOS lacks the airpower that the Enclave has and as a result suffers from less mobility and not as much logistical capabilities.

Not to mention they are also inferior in weapons and armor.



Certainly. Although in Fallout 2 they would have made a good match.

However, the Enclave has the availability of bio-weaponry such as the Curling 13-Virus. Which is an automatic loss for the NCR (although its not conventional). Since it completely negates their primary advantage (population).

The Brotherhood by the way, has no such ability.



In terms of their ability to project force and have massive amounts of resources at their disposal (which aren't necessarily technological in nature, they simply rely on a large population) they are.

Lt. Andronicus, you're making me want to root for the Enclave.

But yeah, because of how "evil" they are often portrayed, I can never really "like" them. I do however like the ones in New Vegas. Of course, I'm no fan of the Brotherhood either (Veronica is an exception!).

NCR svcks, period (and the Legion).

Only faction I support: The Institute (or more specifically the Synth Retention Bureau)

:disguise:

In Fallout 2 the Enclave would have kicked the Brotherhood's ass. The BoS aren't even in the game that much. Just two or three of them in the whole game.

The Enclave and the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 are just poorly writen parodies of what they once were. Brotherhood white knights with Optiums Prime backing them up and the Enclave are the Black knights that we can't join and once again are trying to "take over the world."

The Brotherhood in the West, never wanted to help people. CWBoS want to help everyone even if it means they over stretch their resources and get themselves killed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY had it right. They went back to their roots and formed into a militarized system of government. Rumors say they have fallen on hard times, it could be because of General Barnaky :deal:

Your aren't the first one to say that.

Myself and my fellow Enclave supporters have converted many. :hubbahubba:

Neither, they are both insane.

The reason the Enclave has lost so much is because of good writing, Lt. Andronicus. Maybe if you knew the very basics of good writing you'd understand, but you don't. So let me explain. The reason the Enclave has lost so much is because it wouldn't be a very good story if the PC lost and the best faction won.

Can't tell if joking or stupid...

Enclave, i mean to be fair, both of them are Assh*les
i might as well pick the one with More tec / actually have a good method of survival....or at least did, who would have known that one man could take out a 15ft tall Super Mutant in power armor and an entire platoon of Enclave troopers...hu one of those things that nobody could have predicted =P

I concur. :spotted owl:

In fairness the actual Brotherhood does manufacture, research, and improve on technology. It's only the East Coast that's totally reliant on scavenging.

Perhaps. Although certainly not on the scale of the Enclave. They still rely a great deal on pre-war technology.

Isn't all Enclave tech pre-war except for the power armor?