The east coast and Midwestern BOS will definatly become major power house's while the Western BOS will fade away.

Gollum for Elder (PRECIOUS... MY PRECIOUS....)

In FO3, I think there were a few signposts that all was not well at lost hills - the lack of communication, the fact that their "heir to the throne" (okay, they're not a monarchy, but the Maxson child is pretty darn important and is at least seen the same way Ghandi's decendands are seen in the Indian political scene) is there in the wilderness and not at HQ...

If the WBOS can get overthemselves, and make peace with the NCR, I can see them taking the role of a university style organisation, however if they aren't willing to change (and being the WBOS, they won't), then they'll be forced to when they're beaten back to lost hills, besieged and with no food and water coming in...

(I would have thought the NCR path would be the Canon one - the Wild Card one and the legion ones dont really work for me from a sequel point of view).

With the presence of the final Maxson descendant in DC, as well as total communications black out by both Lyon's BoS and the Outcasts...I think it's safe to say the Western Brotherhood is all but ended as an organization.

Which isn't saying much, since the last time they were any sort of power was in the original Fallout (Where they were treated with a healthy dose of respect and fear from the Natives. Not to mention the sole place to obtain Powered Armor in the game). In Fallout 2 they were a shadow of their former selves, and in New Vegas...well.

Hunkered down in a bunker, cowering like rabbits. Waiting for the end.



I'd probably be a lot more sad about the Brotherhood's state of affairs if Lyons didn't have control of the Pentagon, Vertibirds, and the specs for a giant Super Robot. Even if his armor tech is lower quality (T-45d suits compared to West Coast Brotherhood's T-51bs), he's still sitting on vast military and logistic resources.


And this isn't even taking into consideration the Midwestern Brotherhood, who are mentioned in Fallout 3, but we have no way of knowing if they are as Tactics displays them as being.

East Coast BoS actually has better armor now! They got their hands on a whole bunch of Advanced Power Armor Mk. II's.

I'd forgotten about the kid from the Pentagon, thanks for reminding me. That does suggest something's up out West during 3.

I don't think I caught the reference to the Midwestern Brotherhood in 3, what was it?


This thread has given me an interesting idea for the next game:

In NV, it's essentially good guys vs. bad guys. Sure, the NCR has shades of gray, but they're definitely better than Caesar's Legion. What if the choice in Fallout 4 (or whatever they call it) is a little more complicated?

The BoS in the West is weakened (to what extent is hazy, but no matter) and the dominant force is the expansionist, but more-or-less good, NCR. In the East, there's this new version of the Brotherhood on the rise, with access to better technology than ever. Now, it seems to me that, though the Eastern Brotherhood has abandoned parts of the Code, they are still upholding its main ideal, namely to protect the world from itself by keeping technology out of the wrong people's hands ("wrong people" being anyone other than them). I mean, it's not like they are passing out laser rifles to wastelanders. So I can certainly imagine a source of conflict arising when they make contact with the NCR, and see how far along wasteland civilization is progressing.

You'd have a choice between two major factions. On one hand, there's the somewhat oppressive, beaurocratics NCR, and on the other the technocratic enlightened despotism of the Easter BoS, possibly led by the Maxson kid grown up. Neither side is necessarily "bad", but they each have very different goals and methods. Then there could be lesser factions like the Outcasts, still considering themselves the "true" Brotherhood of Steel. Who would they side with?

What do you guys think?

Despite me being a strong supporter of the NCR, I find the entire situation with the Brotherhood to be very regrettable. It is an entirely unnecessary that could have been avoided with the correct use of diplomacy

The BOS actually originally help formed the NCR. In a lot of ways, not all of the goals that the two groups have are not in direct conflict, the NCR want to bring progress and order back to the wasteland, when the Brotherhood wants to preserve technology, the only thing that they have in conflict is that the BOS doesn't want all 'unworthy' people (e.g. all non-BOS members) from having access to advance technology, when the NCR want to re-introduce technology to citizens in the territories under their rule. However, the BOS is only interested military related technology. So an agreement can be made for the Brotherhood become a part of NCR government. The Brotherhood will have the role as the military and R&D under command of a civilian government, with NCR acting as the civilian government, managing the administration and economy of the territories that they control.

Sadly, I think it is too late for that to happen now. That two sides has already been at war for years and the hatred isn't going to go away. The NCR suffered so much war dead that I don't think they will really allow the BOS to have peace now that they are finally wining the war. And since Hidden Valley have no contact from any other Brotherhood bases, they might very likely be the only members of the BOS left on the west.

It is only a matter of time before Lyons' crew become the only BOS left. When the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood and the NCR finally come into contact with each other, enough time would have pass for them to work out a peace treaty.

I think it's because we got a glimpse at the human side of the west coast Enclave a few times in Fallout 2 (and definitely in New Vegas), while in Fallout 3 all of them are either trying to kill you, throwing tantrums and shooting people, or are cold, calculating computers. In Fallout 2 you had a male Enclave scientist who had a crush on a female soldier and referred to her as some pet name (forgot what it was), a couple mechanics feuding, a deserter giving his honest opinion of the organization, a brownie nosing sergeant, a gossiping cook, etc. They felt like people. The former Enclave members you encounter in Fallout: New Vegas are the same way.

In Fallout 3 you never really get to see the human side of the Enclave. Autumn is the closest thing to a human side we see, and even he just throws tantrums and shoots people most of the time. Now their portrayal in Fallout 2 wasn't perfect, Frank Horrigan was a pretty straight forward psychopath, but they still seemed more human; even the President regretted what he felt he had to do. In Fallout 3 the Enclave members might as well have all been machines, and it's difficult to see a machine as morally gray since machines don't really have a conscience.

Overall I don't really consider either portrayal particularly "gray", but the west coast Enclave certainly seems more human than the east coast Enclave, so if I had to pick one I'd go with the former. That's my opinion on the matter, anyway.

Newsflash, the West Coast BOS were always xenophobic, elitist, and short-sighted jerks with the exception of Elder Maxson, whom fondly reminded me of General Buck Turgedson/George C. Scott in FO1. Why do you think the Midwest BOS told them to eat one after their requests for aid in Chicago and Cheyenne Mountain were repeatedly DENIED! That's how they became more powerful, they broke the bureaucracy and started drafting the tribals, mutants, ghouls, and Calculator drones they conquered in FO Tactics. Plus it's the reason Elder Lyons said the hell with them and started helping the settlers of the D.C. Wasteland survive the FEV-V87 mutant menace.

But where's the fun in that? That wouldn't make much of a video game.

Everyone seems to forget about the central branch of the BoS. While most of us agree that 90% of Fallout Tactics can't be canon even wiki vault says the pivotal events are.

I would have sworn up and down that the events in Van Buren where not canon since the game was never even made. However we know now that was.

What we know about the central branch is that they are recruiting from tribals... and they have the remains of a skeleton robot army at there hands... well maybe not the skeleton part >.> .
They could easily say an 'evil' karma person merged with Calculator, or heck even Barnaky as Calculator could make one hell of a bad guy come FO:4.

I just have the feeling that Calculator's BoS branch will become the next Enclave/Ceasar that unites the east, and west coasts of Post-Ap. America. It will become the OMG huge threat that unites the country... for the most part .

id rather have these jerks than those whining ncr babies

How do we know that? I don't know that. The game was never made. The plot of New Vegas isn't related to the plot of Van Buren at all. Unless I missed something really big.

Of course, it doesn't disprove anything from that unreleased game, but what does it confirm?

I wonder about the possibility of the WBoS (at least the New Vegas chapter) joining with the Followers of the Apocalypse......the NCR seems to be becoming hostile to the followers and they need an enhanced protection force to guard their efforts, seems like the WBoS could form an alliance with them.

The WBoS protects the followers doctors and techs, the WBoS gets any weapon related tech they find together (or receive in payment from locals) and the WBoS gets lots of good karma with the New Vegas locals......they after all agree to help NCR by patrolling the highways, couldn't they agree to guard the followers in the same way?

There are mentions of the NCR fighting BoS back west too. The Hoover Dam colonel was promoted after a successful campaign against the BoS.



Stuff like BoS-NCR war, Caesar's Legion and lots of others are originally from Van Buren. Van Buren is not canon in itself, but a lot of its elements were canonized by FNV.

The Followers aren't big fans of the Brotherhood. The Followers' MO is to share knowledge and technology, whereas the BOS are reluctant to do so.

I'd also like to address a few points - the WBOS have shared technology in the past, they're just choosey. Defence calls the Super Computer they installed into Vault 13's Overseers office. The Vault 13 Dwellers were clearly going to use it in accordance with the BOS's codes on such a thing, and were at the right tech level to respect it, so they shared (well, sold to them is possibly more correct).

From my understanding from the VB design documents, the WBOS became increasingly concerned with the overall tech level of groups such as the NCR, and felt that they weren't responsible enough to use it appropriately, and wanted them to jump back down a few levels.

The East Coast BOS will have no problems surivivng they will be a power house. The West Coast still has time to recover but with the NCR gaining power they need to make a big time decision soon.

Anyone else curious about Elder Elijah? I hope in a DLC it tells what happened to him.

East thrives, West dies

That is what I believe their future will consist of.

The WBoS seem to be mainly focused on weapon tech while the Followers are totally focused on medical and farming techniques so while they aren't big fans (unsurprisingly) of the Brotherhood, maybe there could be a deal to be done on the Brotherhood releasing medical knowledge to the Followers.......doesn't Veronica say in FO:NV that the Brotherhood has been trading weapons (energy or guns?) for food during one of her discussions with the Elder. That would seem to be more against their beliefs than trading medical and general non-military knowledge that they don't regard highly anyway.

The Followers could also act as a safety net for those youngsters who leave the Brotherhood, allowing them to continue to aid the Brotherhood cause and maybe allowing them to return after they get a look at the outside world.



The WBoS has to change, either that or the NCR has to be destroyed within a couple of generations or the WBoS is doomed to extinction due to its own policies.

That's the point really isn't it, ther're so stuckl up teir own [censored] their dooming themselves. Good ridence is what I say, Brotherhood pricks, how I enjoyed blowing hidden valley to pieces.

Keep in mind this is based on Lyons view of the Brotherhood ca 2254 when they left the west coast. The West Coast Brotherhood didnt conflict with NCR in Mojave until 2275, two years before Fallout 3. One of the reasons that they were sent to the Capital to begin with was because they were losing strength and reputation on the west coast, and wanted new tech and equipment. Its possible that they lost contact with the West Coast when they began fighting with the NCR. Maybe the Mojave area was where they communicated from?



I would suggest that the Brotherhood will continue fracturing, with the core Brotherhood becoming more reclusive, more isolated, and die off in time as other more inclusive groups expand and become more powerful. Thats not to say splinter groups wont emerge from this, but they will likely be more like the Capital Brotherhood. This can make for more interesting stories in time, imo, if used properly.

The Brotherhood when you jsut walk in seem to ahve a "restricted" list and an "unrestricted" list that the quatermaster plays by when dealing with you - you can't get the "restricted" tech (Energy Weapons, Power Armour, etc) until you're in the club.

If it came to the Brotherhood sharing some purely defensive tech (Forcefields, Turrets) or power systems used in their weapons, I don't think the followers would have too much of a problem with that. I'm sure the Followers' history schollars will aknowledge that a lot of good civil technology has come out of weapons built for war, or with war in mind (In the real world the idea of a decentralised computer network that can work around nodes and links going offline by using other links spings immediately to mind [internet] - there's a lot of good tech the guys at DARPA do)

However, as I'm sure the scribes of the Brotherhood will remind me, even technology build with the best of civil intentions can be used for great distruction. I refer to Alfred Nobel's second greatest intention Dynamite (His greatest IMHO is what he did with his dynamite fortune, create the Nobel Prizes).


And the second won't happen, at the hands of the Brotherhood at least. House isn't interested in wiping out the NCR, which leaves Ceasar - and I don't like the Brotherhoods chances with him any more than with the NCR.

It's hinted at in Fallout 3 that the Midwestern Brotherhood is still going strong in 2277. I think there's a possibility for reunification between the Eastern and Midwestern BOSs as of them since they both have deigned to help the Wastelanders.

I'm curious though, what happened to the Brotherhood in California exactly? Is the Mojave BOS just a detachment or did they all fall back to Nevada? And why exactly the sudden change in relationship between the Brotherhood and NCR? In Fallout 2 the BoS were friendly enough with them to have a bunker right smack dab in their capital.

Lyons not only has massive logistical resources..which he has started sharing with others such as Rivet City security...he has the goodwill of the people around him, something the WBoS didn't have. This gives Lyons multiple options, and time to decide on what course he is going to chart to secure the Brotherhood's future. Lyons undoubtedly knows enough about what happened out West to see that once society starts to rebuild if they do not find a place in it they'll eventually be seen as a threat. I suspect once a unified government arises in the Capital Wasteland, the EBoS will offer (or accept a invitation) to join the new government by becoming it's Army...basically taking the BoS full circle. While it would then cease to exist as a independant monastic order, it's history, traditions, and personnel would live on as part of the new State.

The Mojave group is a detachment that seems to be semi-autonomous. In the "Good" Bos/NCR ending, the NCR and BOS establish a Truce in the Mojave, but this doesn't extend to the main group where the war continues.

The change wasn't really sudden. Initially the BOS and the NCR/Shady Sands folk had a good relationship to start seeing them as a civilising force that can help control the technology thats out there and keep it out of the hands of raiders and other undesirables.

Over time the Brotherhood became more and more concerned with the NCR's level of technology, and that it might precipitate wars and disasters on previous scales - the BOS hoard and limit their sharing partly in fear of what others will do with it - and lets face it they are do throw their weight around. The BOS felt it was their duty to try and drag them down a notch or two - unfortunately the plan didn't work as intended.