I totally agree with you. This is what should have happened in the West Coast. The BOS becoming the military and R&D department with the NCR being the civilian government that manages the day to day affairs. It was a real shame that the two powers ended up gong to war. THey could have achieved so much good working together. Instead they spent years fighting, killing thousands.

People keep mentioning the "war". Even saying it's still going, in spite of the possible truce. All I have seen referenced in New Vegas is the battle at Helios. They didn't even fight each other until BoS wouldn't leave. Some of the Van Buren things have been confirmed by NV, but not all of them. Unless I missed some dialogue, the war in Van Buren is in the second category.

I don't think it happened. I think, in the new Fallout universe, the BoS is weak because of the Enclave etc. not the NCR. I mean, would the NCR really make a truce with this one splinter of the BoS, even going so far as to let them police the region, if there was a war going on with the rest of the Brotherhood? Or even a recently-ended war?

Its confirmed in New Vegas plenty of times that the BOS is at war with the NCR, and has been for some time; and that the BOS is in full retreat (the full retreat bit is confirmed by a loading screen).

As for the second part - remember the NCR's resoruces in Vegas are stretched, any opportunity to lessen the load...

The midwestern branch comes down to who got control of Calculator in Vault 0...
I can't help but feel that Fallout 4 will be a sort of civil war between Midwestern, and the Eastcoast... with a little NCR tossed in for good mesure.

There are mentions of war with the Brotherhood back in the West in FNV. Colonel Moore from Hoover Dam led a successful campaign against the BoS in California.

What the west BOS need is another Liberty prime. However they are probably doomed, and in the end the East coast BOS will return to the west and have an all out war against the NCR.

I don't see that as likely. The East Coast is not militant about technology the way there forerunners are, For example Rivet City. The hardline Western Brotherhood's first instinct probably would have been to raid that ship for every piece of machinery in it, but the D.C. Brotherhood instead protects them. I hardly think if Lyon's brotherhood ever contacted the NCR that they would have any reason to oppose each other.

The war back west also makes another good reason, other than differing views, why the Western elders actively ignored Lyons.

The Western Brotherhood would misuse Liberty Prime to such a degree it'd make them just as bad as Caesar's Legion, if not worse.

Also, I highly doubt the NCR would be able to expand far enough East to make contact with the Capital Wasteland. My guess is at its height, the NCR won't clear the Rockies. There simply isn't the infrastructure or resources to make that sort of expansion viable.

Mojave BoS is doomed, I doubt the WBoS is as afflicted as Mojave. Maxson save us! Please, Vault Dweller? Chosen One?

The loading screen blurb makes it apparent the BoS is on the run from the NCR. If anything, things are going worse for the Brotherhood back in California.

Lost Hills has to be in a constant state of siege, if it hasn't fallen already.

What does that loading screen say? I don't remember it, but I thought I saw one that was saying the Brotherhood here in the mojave was in hiding, not the BoS as a whole. Maybe I'm wrong. :shrug: I haven't been to Hoover Dam, so I didn't talk to Colonel Moore.

It doesn't make sense to me that they could've had this huge, years-long war, almost wiping out the Brotherhood, but then make the treaty you can make in NV between them.

This. I hope the East Coast Brotherhood isn't a major faction if they make a future East Coast Fallout game. Maybe something like how they were in New Vegas, but with a handful more quests.

BoS will never truly die out, remnants will always remain and Lost Hills is well hidden. I don't think they're at full-out war, but rather Helios I was a skirmish. Sorry, but if they wanted BoS gone, they'd've been gone like the wind in 2242.

Yeah I was joking about that all out war thing. The NCR will probably attack first. Then the EC BOS will send in Liberty Prime then sit back and enjoy the fight. (I'm kidding)

The East Coast will be controlled by the BOS while the West coast will be controlled by the NCR and everyone will live happily ever after.

It's not the Brotherhood as a whole. It just encompasses the Mojave Chapter.




That's why its a regular Caravan stop for the merchants of the Hub.



Lyon's Brotherhood really doesn't have any interest in ruling the East Coast (Besides, I think the Commonwealth and the Pitt would object to their rule). I mean, Lyon's was just giving Water away for free, cost be damned. He wasn't interested in using it to establish dominance in the region like the Enclave wanted it for.

It makes perfect sense given the circumstances:

1) The upcoming battle is critical to the NCR's long term future, a Legion victory will open the way into the NCR proper.
2) Kimball has staked his political future on successfully annexing the Mojave....if the NCR does not win he is finished no matter what happens in the future.
3) The NCR is badly over-extended, and desperately needs all the help it can get.
4) The BoS does not have the strength to defeat the NCR.
4) The other factions, the Legion and House, are abhorrent to the BoS and are not suitable allies against the NCR even if they were willing.
6) There is no scenario for a Independant NV that the BoS is aware of.

Based on this, the BoS has leverage with the NCR, the only faction remotely acceptable to the BoS. The NCR cannot afford to lose, and while the BoS cannot beat the NCR, they can help the NCR beat the Legion. By sweetening the deal by also agreeing to renounce thier claim on Helios....effectively accepting NCR sovereignty over the Mojave....I don't see how Kimball and Oliver could say no to the offer. All they are being asked to do is suffer the BoS to exist in what the Brotherhood themselves now concede to be NCR territory. In exchange, the NCR gets highly effective reinforcements that they desperately need for a battle that they cannot afford to lose. By making this deal, McNamera makes the best of a bad situation and buys time to either find a place for his chapter in the NCR, or to peacefully relocate to a point outside NCR territory.

Not likely.....the E-BoS has a deep reservoir of good will from the locals in the Capital Wasteland due to years of fighting mutants, the Enclave, and then supplying water to the people. Since they are recruiting Wastelanders, over time the E-BoS will be too tied to the people of the Capital Wasteland to go back to the old way of doing things even if the wanted to. I think the most likely fate of the E-BoS is to be incorporated into whatever State arises in the CW as it's Army. But there are the Outcasts, of course......

The Outcasts are more a threat to themselves then other people, if Operation: Anchorage is any indication. Also, there's the issue that they willingly violated the Chain That Binds, to the point their entire command structure is different from the old Brotherhood. The Outcasts wear their name with pride, but ultimately they've been just as "corrupted" as Lyons, but in their own way.

I'm sure this is going to come up eventually, the Chain that binds is "new" to New Vegas in that its just been defined; however we're looking at a group decended from US military deserters and as such would have adapted a lot of their existing culture and proceedures into the codex naturally including the "chain of command" (which I guess means that the founding BOS members broke the chain that binds before they bothered to define it)

Oh I'm aware the whole concept of the Chain is "new" to the Mythos - and Obsidian did a good job covering that fact in that not even the Brotherhood's own members really have read it, to avoid discrepancies - I'm just saying, the Outcasts aren't going to be a major power in any way, shape, or form.

I give them ten years, tops, before they've all killed themselves over some ultimately useless piece of Pre-War Entertainment Tech. Hell, I'll be generous and give them Fort Independence indefinitely...they still aren't going to be relevant. While they're picking at the ruins, accepting turn ins from the locals who bleed their Stimpack/5.56 ammo supply dry Lyons had a giant cache of Tech practically drop in his lap.

Casdin has to be kicking himself for breaking with Lyons. Actually, a humorous aside would be Lyons showing up at Fort Independence wearing Hellfire Armor.

"Hey, Casdin. Check it out! They're giving these things away."

"Woah! Where can I get one of those?"

"Oh? Did you want one? Sorry. We gave everybody in the Citadel a suit, even the Scribes. I'm afraid there aren't any left."

"That's hurtful, Lyons."

"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the screaming rotors of my personal Vertibird. Well, enjoy living in a crumbling ruin. Bye!"

The troops at Hoover Dam say that Col. Moore served 4 tours against the Brotherhood back west. To me this means that it is not just a Mojave chapter of the BoS at war.

Do they? I never got there so I didn't know.

Consider me convinced.

I imagine after that, Casdin and his man will say to themselves, "Screw this. Let go back west." Then after spending years traveling though dangerous territory, losing many soldiers to raiders, and other threats, they will return home and discover that the only remaining part of the BOS is the Mojave chapter (who is working with the NCR), and the rest of the Brotherhood is all but destroyed.

I wonder what will they do after that? Perhaps to declare themselves to be the only 'real' BOS left?

Even if they just holdout at Fort Independence and eventually come across a workable long range radio that can connect to the west, the only signal that they will find is the 'Voice of California' radio station, reporting on how that NCR military finally captured Lost Hills.

I honestly Believe the BOS itself won;t last too long.. i mean think about it..

In DC Lyons ignores the orders of BOS form the west, Casdin ignores lyons , IN operation Anchorage The outcasts kill themselves, in W-BOS McNamarra Ignores the chain that binds, Then the Paladins ignores the chain that binds to try kill the courier and Veronica...seriously WTF...cant they just follow their superiors ?

Maybe Lyons in DC with changed priorities might reduce this internal struggle, but who is gonna be eldar after Lyons , Tristan,star Paladin Cross ? definitely not his daughter unless Lyons BOS has become a Monarchy..

The BOS as an Techno freak organisation are doomed coz their subordinates just can't follow their superiors...

EDIT: This is why the army wants your soldiers to be dumb so that you follow orders to the word. When there are too many smart people in an army , then there is bound to be problems, especially since most of them have very high egos...

It sort of is. The Maxsons are always High Elder, for example. And Lyon's terminal talks about grooming Sarah for command.