So what happens to the Maxson kid?

He also moans about it in his holotapes.


Everything considered, I doubt they could safely get him back west, so eventually he's going to be old enough to pull rank and take over the E-BOS.

Even so, he's grown up soaking in the EBOS sense of ethics, just listen how he looks up to Sarah. So if he stays on the east it'll be business as usual and if he manages to be shipped west..... well it might the the saving throw they need.

I think it will be interesting to see what Bethesda will do with BoS now that we've seen these two iterations; one as an epic overpowered saintly faction and another as a seclusive, arrogant and ultimately doomed order.

Thing is, I think the BoS is simply too cool to phase out of the Fallout Universe any time soon. And especially with FO:3, they have become kind of iconicly tied to the franchise. And unwritten laws of gaming dictate that you can't have either of the two previous BoS iterations come forward in the next installation, as that would be repetitive and therefore wrong.

What I'd like to see then is one of these:
- Massive BoS Civil War
- BoS as The Enemy (Something like The Scourge)
- Manipulative BoS with Survivalist policies; e.g. recruiting new members, but still hoarding tech
- BoS integrated into a larger society as a branch of the army, with only a small faction of "Terrorists" continuing codex policies

Or something else with conflict which could work and not be repetitive
, Daccord

I think this is almost the worst thing to happen to be honest because I find this sorta thinking can lead to some rather twisted situations where the writing doesn't quite make sense. I think it already sorta happened with F3 because it really just felt like they wanted to have the BoS there for the player to identify and ally with because, hey, the BoS looks hella cool.

But anyways, I hope that the faction sorta fades away into obscurity. I think the most interesting part of the entire premise of the BoS is that they have the potential to be so very powerful but inaction and and a very isolationist attitude sorta "dooms" them in the long run. Meanwhile, the NCR has been gathering strength in numbers and even very trained BoS members can't stand against the tide.
So, for the west, I really hope that the BoS will simply diminish and die. Make way for new, interesting factions to play with in the wasteland.

I'm not really sure how I would like the Lyons side of things handled though. In F3, they really felt way too much like saints to me and it's gonna require quite the writing effort to bring it into a more interesting place. Hell, I think if one views the NCR in NV, it's really only "good" when contrasted against the Legion. There are still huge problems with them aggressively taking over territory, expanding way too fast and running people over in the pursuit of resources, conscripting inexperienced people and not giving them proper gear, general debauchery and so forth. The core values of the NCR are obviously good but there are a large amount of flaws in how they act in reality. I think the eastern BoS (if they will end up a power player in the East, which I would assume they will) *really* needs something like that for it to really feel like Fallout at all. And for them to abandon the BoS epithet because it just would not make sense for them to identify with that any longer since they have gone through such a big change in ideologies. It seems closer to the Followers than anything.

Ok, how about a new question. With the Enclave pretty much dead and buried, Super Mutants no longer a united threat, the different BoS groups either fading away or knights in shining armor (well, kinda dirty grayish armor, anyway), and Caesar's Legion dependant on the life of a guy we might have killed in our game, who will the next big Antagonist be?

Theres something admirable about the western Brotherhood.They are faced with tough times but refuse to change who they are.I respect that.I didnt like the Brotherhood in FO3, it just wasnt right, thats why I worked with the outcasts- and its a shame you couldnt help put them in a more powerful position.I loved my first meeting with the Mojave chapter in FNV, 'ok you have an explosive collar on now, so do as we say', was just the Brotherhood I remembered.

I think the western Brotherhood will be okay for a while at least, they just a need a big score and soon.Lost Hills would be one hell of a tough nut to crack....not to mention the network of other bunkers/strongholds held by them.If they chose to prosecute the war too much I think the NCR could easily be facing a Pyrrhic victory that they would not recover from.

I'm not sure why people area assuming that the east coast Brotherhood of Steel is really any better off than the main Brotherhood. They've shown time and time again that they have no real direction, no long term plan; they're just as short sighted as the main branch, only more altruistic. For twenty years Lyons' chapter just sat around the Citadel and occasionally went out and killed Super Mutants in the DC ruins and this got them nowhere, and it wasn't until the Lone Wanderer came along and did everything for them for them that they made any real progress. That doesn't exactly inspire competence. I'm not saying the main branch of the Brotherhood is destined to thrive mind you; I just don't think that Lyons' Brotherhood is any better off than they are due to their lack of direction.

There's always some new struggle in the wasteland, and if Lyons' Brotherhood couldn't even handle Super Mutants and had difficulty with the Enclave (who were a shadow of their former selves during Fallout 3) then they won't be able to handle larger organizations like Caesar's Legion or the NCR; neither of which will trust them, and both will likely go to war with them.

As it stands, there's no major political force to balance against them. What organisations exist are small and what towns exist have little interest beyond their walls (and not much of a standing force to try with).

I'd like to see the BoS (loyal to Lyons) reconcile with the outcasts - once he's gone - seizing DC through control of the purifier. It was for Lyons' pride they helped the locals, not because they became a charity. If the BoS can't settle their differences, they'll collapse and be pushed out of the way, as more settlers pour in for the water. Either scenario is interesting.

Hard to say. Honestly, anyone with some knowledge and access to some Pre-War hardware can become a major threat. Though I have my suspicions that by the time New Vegas wraps up its development cycle we're going to be butting heads with



It sounds romantic - refusing to bend to the tide of conformity washing over them - but realistically the Brotherhood's refusal to adapt and change is sad.



Assuming Lost Hills hasn't already fallen, it's not that tough a nut to crack. Yeah, the Elevator Access makes storming the place a very difficult proposition, but if you could secure a foot hold, you've effectively won. Once you control the ground above, then there's no place for the Brotherhood to go, you can start bottling them up. In all likelyhood though, the Brotherhood would opt to destroy Lost Hills themselves rather then have it fall into the hands of the NCR. So in that case, simply seizing the area around Lost Hills and blowing the elevator access to the surface - entombing the Brotherhood - would be the best course of action.

It's not like the Brotherhood's technology is all that advanced, given the NCR controls Navarro.



Why do people assume the Brotherhood hasn't been taking the war seriously? They've been bloodied in a long, protracted conflict with the NCR to the point the Brotherhood is actively on the run. Going by the Outcast dialogue in Fallout 3, it's very likely the Western Brotherhood's Command structure has completely collapsed, given the silence coming from out West and the Mojave Chapter operating more or less independently.

The Brotherhood has the tech advantage, but the NCR has both the manpower and logistics support. They've been pouring money and troops into the Mojave for years fighting the Legion, and it's never mentioned that it's putting a damper on the NCR's population. Indeed, working with OSI reveals in a decade, the NCR will be facing a food shortage due to overpopulation!



I think that's taking the situation of Fallout 3 at face value, though.

Lyons' Brotherhood had a lot of lightning victories early in their arrival East. It's implied through Dialogue that the Super Mutants were a lot more numerous prior to the Brotherhood's arrival and the Brotherhood bled themselves white containing the Super Mutants as they had. Combine that with a factional divide, and the simple fact was Lyons wasn't able to keep momentum going, even with local conscripts from the Pitt and Capital Wasteland.



With access to Enclave Technology, however, I think Lyons' Brotherhood got a shot in the arm in terms of combat effectiveness. Keep in mind, for whatever reason nobody in Lyons' group or the Outcasts had a T-51b suit. They were making due with the older T-45ds they found in the Pentagon. So really, even in regards to the West Coast Brotherhood, they were running off pretty basic tech. Also, unlike the West Coast, they didn't find any undamaged Pre-War Bunkers to fortify (Mainly because unlike the West Coast, there was no "untouched" area in the East). They had to stay out in the open, so the Super Mutants were constantly attacking the Brotherhood's defenses while the Brotherhood couldn't even find the Super Mutants' base.




It'd never happen. Mainly because at this point, Lyons' Brotherhood is basically a Native force. Also, what would the Brotherhood do with the Capital Wasteland? Lyons goal was to stabilize the region in order to make securing advanced technology far easier.With the Super Mutants dying out and the Enclave broken, not to mention clean water flowing to the settlements of the Wasteland, it was implied Lyons was rededicating the efforts of the majority of the Brotherhood back to the original goal of securing advanced technology.

I will put good money down on Calculator, and the Central US BoS faction will be the next bad guys.
It will come down to another purifying thing with a BoS backed up with a robot army from Vault 0.

Not to administer it, or impose some kind of tyranny, but to preserve their place in a region, which is only going to grow in population. Someone's going to oversee the purifier.

I think it is the NCR who havent took the war as seriously as they could, not the Brotherhood.Why else would it be possible to make a truce in the mojave? Hardly total war by the side in a stronger position.It's all conjecture of course, but the NCR don't seem to be forcing the issue as much as they could, I imagine they are spread across alot of seperate issues, the mojave campaign just one example of this.Well, unless thats the reason they are struggling in the mojave; they are spending more resources and keeping the best equipment back west/somewhere else, fighting the Brotherhood/unknown enemy there.
It looks like the NCR struggle to get the best out of captured tech anyway, what did they really gain from navarro? They run around in limited numbers of 'salvaged' T-45ds, power armour in name only.Where's the good stuff? Not on the front line of a serious war effort anyway......
Thats why I think the NCR had to leave things as they are with the Brotherhood right now.The Brotherhood might have the will to fight a fierce war but they are limited, to the point that maybe many chapters are in lockdown? Are they a major threat, or even carrying out major ops now? The NCR know they have more pressing issues themselves and they also know to truly eradicate the brotherhood would be a huge cost so they are limited too, to the point that they accept the status quo.

fallout 4....

that is all.

It's all in the NCR proper apparently, the thing to remember is New Vegas is a backwater low priority region for the NCR.....they made a grab for the dam and New Vegas and came up short due to Mr House, so now they're stuck garrisoning a region they don't have any overall control (no tax revenue apart from the caravaneers) or official authority (no towns). President Kimball (Peaches) won't lose face by withdrawing from the region, but neither will he send the needed reinforcements.

The 'salvaged T-45ds' were supposed to have come from the Brotherhood at Helios (they are salvaged junk really) but its better than nothing for Oliver's command, since he's been left to hold the dam with nothing but a fairly regular supply of poorly trained conscripts and poorly equipped rangers.




Since the NCR apparently stomped the Brotherhood into the ground, they must have taken the war with the Brotherhood seriously enough.....long term through, its seems it was the Brotherhood that was spoiling for a fight and the NCR could be open to a diplomatic solution.

I doubt the NCR wants to storm a large number of Brotherhood bunkers.....the cost would probably be very high (men and materials) and all that tech being destroyed would be a terrible waste of resources to the resource hungry NCR.

This is what interests me. The West Coast BoS is declining, while the East Coast BoS are thriving. The East Coast BoS are recruiting locals and are gaining size. As far as we know, the NCR has no knowledge of an East Coast BoS, much less the threat they may pose. I wonder what will happen when the two encounter one another, although the East Coast BoS is a much friendlier organization and I don't think they'll be much a problem.

The codex's are going to have to go in the bin, Take a leaf out of the East Coast, Its ither that or they might as well jump in the bin as well.

What.

Also, from what I've heard, the Midwestern brotherhood is non-canon, since it is Tactics.

But what about when Lyon's dies/retires? Where will the Eastern BoS's loyalties lie when they make contact with the NCR, and what's left of the Western Brotherhood, only to find that the NCR is responsible for their brothers' collapse?

The Eastern Brotherhood are a far more friendly organisation under Lyons, but are they still consider themselves Brotherhood. Especially if the Maxson kid ended up in charge, would he really feel amicable towards the organization which caused his ancestors' legacy such grief? I don't know.

I think Maxson was raised under the East Brotherhood values like the rest of them.

I think Sarah may take over. She is more hot headed than her father, but at the same time, does not seem to have any personal feelings about the Western BoS.

I wouldn't be surprised if some third party popped out of the blue. Ronto, or Toronto, could possibly be a powerful city state. The Pitt also has absolutely HUGE manufacturing potential.

Strikes me in the East, the Commonwealth and the Brotherhood would likely butt heads. Especially since the Commonwealth has appearently continued to advance technologically in ways not even the Enclave has managed.

I doubt the NCR and the Eastern Brotherhood will ever meet up. For starters, cause there's a hell of a lot of land between the two (not to mention Caesar's Legion and God Knows who else) and the NCR's effectively hit its ceiling in terms of population growth (It's stated in New Vegas, within ten years the NCR would be facing a food shortage).

Thats got to happen eventually. Elder Lyons might have added "Helping people" to the priority list, but the core brotherhood stuff about preserving tech and knowledge and keeing it out of the hands of people that shouldnt have it is still ehre

I dunno, I can think of a certain country that started on one side of a contentent with all sorts of people and cultures between them and another coast, and they seemed to stretch out eventually.

The NCR does have a "Manifest Destiny" mindset. Some sort of contact is inevitable, but its going to be a long time before either can throw a force at the other.

Fallout Wiki...



Heck Van Buren was not even finished, and most of its canon...

Pivotal event would enclude
Central BoS recruiting/drafting locals
Vault 0
Insane amounts of robots
Calculator
and if they let the bad ending happen a very currupt BoS branch that has the same agenda as the East Coast Enclave, and an insane amount of robots at there disposal.

Now that's something I'd love to see. Admittedly, though, I'm a bit biased, being from Boston.

It does make sense there'd be an advanced group of survivors here. I mean, we've got MIT, Harvard, and a whole crap-load of other colleges. I wonder where they'd put Vaults. Maybe the Big Dig was really a plot by Vault-Tec to build the biggest Vault ever! (Does anyone not from Boston know what the Big Dig was? Probably not. Oh well.)