Question with regards the Brotherhood of Steel, TheOutcasts and the events of Broken Steel?

Given the events of Broken Steel, and its potential Conclusion. I have a couple fo Questions frthe lore-masters here.

1) Given Lyons has shown the ability to captue ad use very high level technology. what are the odds of reconsiliation with the outcasts?
2) Wht would be the priorities of Lyons BoS in the even the Enclave no longer becomes a threat.

If you're talking about the T-45d PA they found underneath the Citadel, along with Liberty Prime and all the other pre-war tech, Casdin and the Outcasts were apart of Lyons' division then. The mutiny happened because Lyons went native and changed his priorities, Casdin did not agree with this new mission. The odds of reconciliation, are very, very slim. Moreso when you consider Lyons' and Casdin's egos.

Lyons never altered his priorities based on the presence of the Enclave, his decision was based on the Mutant threat, and the wastelanders he felt compelled to protect. My guess is they'll reignite project purity, and have a cold bottle of Nuka Cola. No doubt the Outcasts will reconcile with the exchanging of 'yellow flavoured' Nuka. Before making a quick exit.

I really disliked the BOS in the first two games. The East Coast BOS is almost tolerable since at least they are trying to actually do something with their technology instead of hording it. Of course I'm a white knight kind of guy, I want to see the world improve.

White Knights are boring. Fallout = Moral ambiguity.

They don't hoard their tech, they study it, replicate it, augment it, create their own. They would even trade it if it was in their best interest. They also believe they are responsible for all pre-war tech, not surprising considering they're ancestral of a military outfit. They're not a bad bunch of guys. But like the Enclave, I don't think they should have much prominence in any future Fallout story/grand scheme.

Sorta, I'm a complete Lore Fool, so please be gentle.

With Project Purity activated at the end of Fallout 3 as well as the activation of Liberty Prime (both achieved without the Outcasts)
Lyons has demonstrated that protection of the population of the wastelands (in particular the intervention of the Lone Wanderer) have validated his decisions. he has a massive robot, and fresh water.

He has achieved the BoS long term goal of improving the world via technology, and after the events of Broken Steel the Enclave may be weakened. He is at present in a very stong position.

Conversly Casdin, i still begging for Power Armour etc, and doesn't appear to have a long term plan beyond that.
he appears to be in weakened Position.

1) Would Outcasts return to the Citadel and leave Casdin?
2) If so would the assination of Casdin allow for all/most of the Outcasts to b re-intergrated tothe citadel?
3) with the Enclave gone and if there was not reconcilliation would the Outcasts be numbered as a threat tothe Citadel and thus hunted by Lyons BoS?

It was never the BoS' goal to "improve the world via technology", they claim to be 'saving humanity' but that in itself can be misconcieved. By saving humanity they seek and secure pre-war tech, and 'protect' humanity by making sure it doesn't repeat its past mistakes of destroying itself. They believe there are the few people in the wasteland that are able to use technology responsibly, and in so many words, I agree. The BoS at least, seem responsible enough.

Casdin is indeed in a weakened position, him and his division have been cut off from both Lyons and command back on the West Coast. They can do nothing but achieve their goal to the best of their abilities.

Another question would be, would some of Lyons' division break off and join the Outcasts? So far there hasn't been much of a power struggle between the two, so I doubt the members of the respective factions are questioning their loyalties.

The assassination of Casdin may be a vital blow to Outcast morale, but if they are certain that Lyons' isn't in league with their goals, then I believe they'd continue to be Outcast, you also have to consider if Lyons would show leniance, and let them join again. He may have a soft spot for the local populace, but he is still a strong leader, and allowing them back after such a 'betrayal' would perhaps reveal yet another compromising weakness in his judgement.

The Outcasts wouldn't be a threat unless they made it so. If the Outcasts decided to fight Lyons, or interfere in their efforts, then the two might meet at the end of eachother's gun barrels alot more often.

I know that there is moral ambiguity which adds to the excitement of the Fallout Universe and our own, but in my opinion there was a possibility of seeing the BOS as technology fetishists. I'm not saying they should be true good guys, but I think it's strategic to aid the people of the region. I think it'll become a lord / serf relationship if it continued the way the game implies.

Thanks for the replies. some thinking to do.

I'd hope not. Not that strategic to aid the people, well beyond just killing off major threats to you and the incidental benefit it gives to the average scum outsider.

Well, I'm using historical precedent here. Why were warriors so overpowered in Medieval times? Because they had the weapons and ability to protect the masses they moved into a superior role. I'd like to see the BOS disappear to be honest, as I said before I never liked them.

If anything, the Brotherhood are actually more like medieval knightly orders (the Templars, in particular), than any goody-two-shoes knightly order I've seen in any fantasy game.

Warriors are always overpowered if you're comparing them to civlians, really. BoS isn't really a protector of anyone, I think, they might just kill your enemy, but they might just as well kill you. I'd like them to go away, I had liked the faction - seemed to be a glimmer of hope for humanity's recovery, but they've been far too overplayed.

I agree with that. As a History Major who studied Medieval History I can tell you that most knights and nobles were probably like that, so the Brotherhood is a good anologue of an Order of Knighthood. I'd like to see something that has no connection to groups in the earlier games, except Deathclaws since there's good reason for them to be anywhere.

Personally, I like the Brotherhood. Mostly the West Coast and Outcasts though. The East Coast BoS took a turn for the worst. I see no problem with helping the local populace but you shouldn't just stop gathering tech too. There should be some type of organization, either in the BoS or outside of it, that occupies the middle ground.

Except for the PC. Most everyone (except bad characters) seem to expect you to do things for free. If you respond with something like "I'll do it for a reward" or "That's not enough money," they always get upset. Why should random wastelanders be willing to do EXTREMELY dangerous missions for free, and/or a tiny amount of caps, of which you frequently get more from scavenging.



The problem with saying the BoS should not have much prominence in the future misses that they are the largest power from the Rockies east. Only in the west, and only in the non-cannon Van Buren, has the BoS really fallen apart. Now if you meant they shouldn't be a big part because you are tired of them...well, that's a different point. Personally, I want to go to china and follow some US Army remnants around that wastelands. In that case it would make sense for every wasteland [censored] want to kill you and we wouldn't have to stick to the overdone Vault lore, and maybe we could see mutated Death-Pandas.

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying the PC is a white knight? Because that's completely upto the player. Of course people don't like you asking for more, who ever does? Truth is if you've got the speech/barter and the charisma to convince someone for more, chances are they'll give it to you, even if it is begrudgingly. (at least, that's how it should work).

They are by no means the largest power, they're usually a very small and elitist group of individuals. They just have bigger guns and armour than most people. And yes I am tired of them. As I've said before, this is Fallout, not "BoS: A day in the life of...." They have their own agenda, and don't need to be constantly in the big picture. They can take a step back and become another faction as far as I'm concerned.

They didn't actually fall apart in Van Buren.

I do like the more morally shady BoS from the original games, and I think real heroes should be pretty much non-existant in FO, except for the PC. That said, I liked the idea of a morally strong character taking over the regional branch of the BoS in order to help people... if it was written a bit better it could have made a lot more of an impact.

The only real problems I have with the way it is presented in game is: shouldn't Lyons' outfit be the "outcasts" since they are the one rebuffing the BoS' stated goals? I would think the "home office" would declare them outcasts and start communication with the splinter group. Also, if the BoS in this area are more for peace and helping those less fortunate, why do they kill ghouls on sight?

The Outcasts are the best faction ever. Period.

Korne Space Marines with gatling lasers who amputate Gary arms are the ultimate of in-game factions.

Very well thought argument, however, If i understand correctly, although Lyons BoS isn't actually acting according to regulations, they aren't cast out. The Elders just don't give any support to Lyons as long as they stick to helping people as their main focus, instead of finding tech. Lyons BOS is still a part of the original BOS, only the black sheep of the family, so to speak.
They Outcasts intentionally left the Lyons BOS, and therefor the "official" part of the entire BOS. It is also not mentioned (to me) if the Outcast have contact with the BOS on the west coast.

The name Outcasts fits perfectly for said faction, however, I can understand your point entirely.

They don't. They are trying to establish the contact.

Which sort of gives the impression that Lyons never told the main BoS, who he is indeed in contact with, that a splinter group left the Citadel. It almost makes sense that when the outcasts do get a hold of the main BoS, Lyons' group might be turned into the outcasts and the outcasts into the BoS. hat sounds convoluted, but... something like that.

Anyway, what I am basically saying, again, is that I do't have an issue with a "renegade" do-gooder shifting the BoS' goals in the DC area, it makes sense and could be used as good story material, but I think it should have been fleshed out more and become a centerpiece of the story more than it was. It also basically ignored the cool choice idea of having to support one BoS group or the other. This is nothing new in Falout 3 however, The Enclave was similarly founded on some good ideas that were never really fleshed out how they should have been, and thus moments and choices are sort of dissapointing. The exchange with the President was especially a let-down compared to what it could have been, Lyons and the rest were simply more examples.

I am sure Bethesda felt the need to shoehorn all these Fallout 1+2 chatacters into the story though, since it was a revival and on such a larger scale consumer-wise. The plot devices needed to get all these groups back into the story thousands of miles away inevitably leads to dissapointments and such. We can only hope Fallout 4 is full of new ideas and new factions... I expect New Vegas to have at least BoS and super mutants though, given its location.

Indeed. Or he told them but didn't tell what the renegades' motives actually were.

If Bethesda goes the Fallout 2 route and makes Fallout 4 in roughly the same location many years later, it could be interesting to see what the two groups progress to, and whether the original BoS group takes anyone to task.

I think the BoS are going to be turned into white goodly pallys of the wastes. I think including the Maxson with the East brotherhood means he will take over when old enough and take the BoS the Lyons route. They just slipped him in didn't they. I mean his not that old, but was sent East, we don't know when, or really wholy why, I also thought that the East BoS was cut off from the West around the time they sent him.

I think its basicly designed to change the BoS ideology as a whole.

Will be intrested if the BoS are in NV and if they are more like the East faction that would be an indication