Agreed. Its better to have 1 lion than 10 cats in a fight,

You need a tissue to wipe the tears from your eye, you big and bad and mentally-tough green beret?

Really the BoS almost decimated the NCR? The whole NCR? All their armies they have in their huge Republic? I don't recall them even coming close to wiping out the soldiers sent to the Mojave just to check it out and to fight local "tribals."

BoS would but up a fight but they would not bring the whole of the Legion to it's knees. Caesar sends an army to take the BoS, their may be a chance the BoS could hold out against it. Caesar will just send another and then another until he wins. The Legion may not be as big as NCR, population wise but they still out number the Mojave BoS greatly.

I never called anyone names I do not know where you got that.
I never called anyone childish either, I made an observation about the level of knowledge I expect a given at a given age.
I also do not know who my friend is.

I suggest you make an effort to not read things that are not there.

Please would you take these to the PM's unless your going to discuss about the BOS and Legion.

Oh for gods sake. I don't know how else to put this through your head. It does not matter how powerful a gun is or how fast it can shoot when you are out-numbered by such a large margin. With the numbers CL is capable of committing, there are more than enough of them to close the gap and mob them.

Humans are incapable of picturing extremely large numbers in their head, thats the problem with this argument.

Just a quick question: Does the BOS Mojave Chapter have any Fatmen?

Alright the voice of reason is here, how you guys been doing without me? Not to well judging from the last six pages, are you guys seriously blowing raspberries at each other, wtf?

Anyway if the fight we're talking about here is where we pretty much replace the NCR with the Legion at the Helios 1 battle then lets at least be fair, for all the people saying the Brotherhood could have just used the orbital laser to wipe out the Legion no the couldn't have, they never got the thing working remember? They didnt have it against the NCR and there's no reason to think they would have got it running for the Legion either. I'll say the same thing that i said in the thread yesterday, if the NCR lost men at a rate of ten to one against the Brotherhood then I wouldn't be suprised if the Legion lost them at a rate of fifty to one, just because of the nature of their tactics (run the newer recruits straight at them to wear them down then send in the veterans once they weaken their target). That being said as much as it pains me to say it because i've always loved the Brotherhood I really think that if the Legion really commited to defeating the Brotherhood, then sooner or later I think they would be able to do it.
If we're talking about just the Mojave chapter here and we are then they have limited numbers and if Caesar put his mind to it he would just pump in new troops day and night until they wore the Brotherhood down, when you stop and think about it the Legion really does have just as good equipment as the NCR, even the lower level troopers have cowboy repeaters, where the NCR gives their troops service rifles, not really a whole lot of a difference there now is there?

The thing is without fresh troops and having to fight a war 24-7 like the Brotherhood would have to do, sooner or later they would get worn down, start to make mistakes, and it would cost them. Like i said the Legion would take massive casulties doing it, but eventually the legion would come out on top.

Not all Americans are hillbillies. They're just concentrated in the southeast.

Probably partly this and partly hollywood conditioning making it incapable to understand the enemy deploys tactics on the same level you do, doesnt actually svck at shooting and that heroes are not immortal.

yeah, they dont diet or train often. -,- ,,,,,,,,,using a fat man missile launcher would do more damage than good.

Yes of course.

Mini nuke vs. Legonaries....= 15 legionaries dead on the ground.

And lets leave the real life military out of this please, I think they deserve a little more respect than to have a bunch of sore losers on a video game forum pund their chest and act like they have a clue when half of them would [censored] themselves if they ever had to go fight a real war.

I agree fully with this. It goes along with what I have been saying. The BoS have fancy weapons but those weapons are useless when they run out of ammo. A man is useless when he runs out of food and drink. Legion's huge numbers and their willingness to go up against an enemy that greatly out classes them, will win the day. How do I know this? NCR did the same damn thing, lol. They had more men then BoS had bullets. They cut supplies and seiged Helios. NCR did not wipe out the BoS, but they forced them to retreat to a bunker. "A Cave is a grave." Worst place in the world to be, once your enemy finds it. All they have to do is once again cut your supplies and wait outside the entrance, or just dump a mountain of rocks into the stair way. Or blow it up.

The pertinent question here is: Do they have the ability to produce new ones?
While under siege and unable to scrounge for old world supplies, that is.

If we are talking about the West Coast BOS then they would most certainly lose against the legion even if they have superior Tech. The Leadership is the main problem. The East coast would put up a fight although they don't have the numbers to deal with the legion.

But your missing the point man. The Legion doesn't have the ability to do any of those things. They can't lock the Brotherhood out of supplies, the Brotherhood will take them. If Caesar is waiting for reinforcements, then the Brotherhood will strike and wipe out the entire camp. The Brotherhood doesn't have to fight a defensive war. Maybe you've made the mistake of assuming that all the Brotherhood soldiers you see in-game are the only ones there are in the Mojave? Because that isn't the case....Stuff like that can't be built to scale in game...Maybe you haven't noticed, but the NCR's main outpost at McCarran only has about 30 people... The Mojave Chapter is way bigger than what your or I see. Not to mention, they can always receive help from out west.

In the end, The Legion just doesn't have the ability to beat the Brotherhood as I've said. Even if they did do that suicide tactic of sending wave upon wave of people until they eventually overran them, the Legion would lose more than it ever gained on a level which far exceeds the insane. The Legion would lose thousands upon thousand of troops. There would barely be a standing army left and what would Caesar have gained? Nothing..Because they have no use for technology remember...And this doesn't even consider that the Brotherhood could always retreat back into their base and fight another day..
Caesar would never be so foolish to attack the Brotherhood, because he'd lose more than he'd ever gain. But yet you call that victory?

Exactly. A Paladin is not immortal. Paladins must eat and sleep. The Legion is massive enough to take advantage. War is not one giant battle on one field. War is across multiple theaters.

And even on one field:

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID34432/images/mob_of_people_gett_christoph_reichwein.jpg

Gauss Rifles and Gatling Lasers would be useless.

Oh my god, do people understand what war actually is, do people understand sieges, destroying supply lines, etc? The Brotherhood would constantly be losing everyday, unable to replace what the Legion can replace in hours.

It all comes down to leadership. If Edward is in charge then the BoS would win... If Lanius was in charge then the Legion. As much as I hate to say it, and as hard as they have tried to point other wise Lanius has a crap ton more control, and a better head for tactics then Edward ever thought about having.

As for Prime... its in worse shape then when they found him, and I doubt it will be up and running any time soon... But yes Prime is the literal definition of Deus ex machina. If its running next to nothing could stop it. Its just a good thing its no longer running

I agree with Styles.

Brute force Isn't the only thing that wins wars, I mean it helps but like I've said many times before the head is where it's at.

1. You do relize you cant pick up dead bodys and take there supplies and food right?
2. Yah in a mob guess what? The BOS paladins have power fists and are capble of flying people across places...
3. What supply lines do the BOS have...all they have is patrols they sent out to get food and there covert.
Remember the Commanders: BOS: Elder Elijah Head paladin- Hardin. Legion: Ceaser. Military commander- Graham.

Fancy toys does not always = Victory. Germany had the best weapons of WW2 (for the most part ) and they lost for many reason but it pretty much boils down to: Out numbered greatly.

Legion have far more men then Mojave BoS have bullets.

I can't understand how people seem fine with NCR winning against the Mojave BoS but the Legion, there is no damn way? Why is that? Because they wear skirts? :rolleyes:

They do in the armoury for sale once you become a member, but no mini nukes. I ve never seen one carry one, but they only go out and patrol around the bunker. They probably have some mini nukes stashed.

I'm done. This argument is impossible. Hollywood really has made people believe that heroes are invincible. :rolleyes:

You seem to be assuming some sort of omnipotence here while in game it is said that the brotherhood suffered a loss of 1 against 10 when they fought the NCR.
The NCR is not as callous with the lives of their troops as the legion and so the number of casualties against the legion would no doubt be higher, but the strikes they did make would hurt the bortherhood more as the legion is led by a brilliant strategist.

They would not lose thousands of troops isolating the bunker.
Twenty on every brotherhood soldier, possibly, and that is a loss easily taken when you are fighting a siege war with the hive mentality of the legion troops.

You paint them as gods while in reality they are inbred conservative people not willing to make any decision that has no precedents. They cannot ressuply and they sure as hell cannot outnumber. The moment Caesar surrounds the valley the fight is lost, though the actual siege could take a decade or two.