Except these aren't combat tactics bro. Caesar being a Follower is only more of a reason he wouldn't understand modern tactics, I will say that I don't think he was typical Follower, in that he enjoyed learning about war and likely picked up tactics, but his knowledge of warfare is nothing compared to a group of people who decscend from the U.S. Army. The Brotherhood is trained to fight battles. Their knowledge on the battlefield is one of their greatest assets. They are expertly trained in combat tactics-all of them. While the Legion isn't, only their commanders-and that's said in game. As i said before, none of those things you said are combat tactics...The Brotherhood would completely outstrategize and outmanuever the Legion on a battlefield...As for morale tactics...which you listed...How is putting on Brotherhood soldier to a gruesome death going to lower morale on the same level that an absolute slaughter of a Legion company would? Such heavy losses consistently would take a huge toll on the Legion's morale..

If you want to find Legion strength's in combat, you aren't going to find it in the mental aspect of war. The Brotherhood is far superior in that aspect as well, as is their tech. All this is why I said the only choice the Legion has is a full out bull rush, in which they would lose thousands-because it's all their good at. It's their only choice, because their numbers are their only advantage. If they try to fight a war any other way, they're going to get massacred....Which isn't too far from what they'd be on a suicide charge anyways..

That doesnt excuse that the Russians had the highest Death toll of the whole war.

The Brotherhood is not trained to fight wars. That is a very big misconception. They are trained to survive and hoard technology. They are not tactical.

where as the legion are.

They won though didn't they? That's all that mattered for them was winning and that's what they did, was win. After the fall of Hitler they didn't have to worry about a troop shortage because no one would attack them after the opposition forces of the biggest war in history lost. They had time to re-build their armies and bulk up.

Yes to survive and that can mean winning wars if that is what it takes for them to survive. They arnet some scientists locked up they are a super weapon. Why would they wear that Armor? If they didnt expect fights or wars. Why would they use the most advance weapons and equipment? Because they strive to last and want the best there is to offer to protect themselves whether its a bunch of tribals trying to steal the valuable tech or its about people trying to kill the BOS itself.

Oo very good point, finally something that advances the discussion!

Indeed.
But wouldnt Ceasar adapt and send guerilla suicide troops, small parties designed to take out at least one foe no matter if they made it back?
I still hold that no sieged has ever survived a siege without outside intervention.
They either get betrayed, give up, or die of lack.
Caesar could go for a hit and run tactic, again, any casualty on the brotherhood side is one down that does not go up.
While the legion recruits every day.
Id say its a matter of time and the brotherhood cant win no matter what, unless they get reinforcements from other chapters.

For intimidation. They are hoarders, not heroes

Unless.....you're suggesting that not only can Power Armor make them invincible, but it can make them tactical too?

The brotherhood still dont give up after they have been in there Bunker for years. But there morale is slowly going away but thats Post.

Pre there morale is probably normal.

Modern Style? You do know that Legion and BoS don't have modern planes and so on right? Pretty much they are fighting a WW1 or ealier war.

NCR did not attack the Helios with Vertibirds and bombers and so on. They simply cut off the BoS and let them fire off all their ammo. Let them run out of food and water. Seige Warefare.

Legion are smart enough to do the same. Why is it everyone thinks in terms of head on attacks? Think seige. Think hit and run. America had very few troops and were poorly equiped and they won against the British Empire. Poorly equiped can do amazing things and the Legion arn't out numbered by BoS. They out number the BoS greatly.

Think outside the Box people. War isn't just running head long into a wall of bullets till one runs out of people.

NCR has nothing that can withstand Gauss Weapons or deal with T-51b power armour. At least not when they dealt with the BoS at Helios. The average Joe was a man with a piece of crap service rifle and leather armour.

Leather armour in a desert. I can see why they keep saying "Being in the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter." No [censored] Shurlock, you are dressed head to toe in leather armour in a desert! Legion are much cooler (as in not over heating) in their armour and have more freedom of movement. I bet no one thought about that :rolleyes:

make no mistake Styles Russia did not win nor did the US or The British. It took every country that had a military and could get there to win. The world won......... Hitler went against his military leaders and attacked Russia. It was all down hill from there, too many men had to be pulled from the French/ English channel lines to counter the Russians. This made the D day invasion possible.....

If the never attacked Russia and finished England there would have been no where to lauch attacks from besides ships.

We based in England, because Germans were too underpowered to take it, and the British fought like dogs. If they were not messing with Russia they would have got the British before the rest of the world got there.

Why wouldn't they be tactical they aren't stupid they are one of the most smartest factions in FNV and Fallout alone.

Smarts =/= Tactical. Just because they can use Power Fists and maintain them doesn't mean they know anything about fighting a legitimate war.

Im pretty sure they have experience with wars. Or at least small battles. They have simulators for what? To recreate a war-zone or battle. There not the best to use but it works.

(does this need to be carried on to another thread?)

This is debatable and it would highly depend on where you live.
For an Englishman or American, yes, thats roughly correct.
But dont forget that for a Russian, they valliantly fought off an unlawful invader who had already swallowed up many and now turned against them while they had a pact.
For them it was a righteous war and one that they most assuredly won.

I dont really think you can speak of 'the world won' unless you are displaying some sort of propaganda or other as we are not a united people and ones mans glorious victory is another mans side note.

There is nothing that supports this statement whatsoever...If the games haven't made it clear to you that Brotherhood soldiers are experts in the art of warfare then I really don't know what to say other than you aren't paying much attention. That may not have been so for the first two Fallout games, but FO3 and NV have made it quite clear that the Brotherhood now train their soldiers to be elite..

Try to stay clear of the WW2 examples and such now.

My original point is that Germay was out numbered.

I am not going to continue the debate about Russia winning or not. I will say this one last thing. Germany focused pretty much everything they had to fight Russia. The bulk of German forces were sent to fight Russia. The bulk of German deaths (caused by battle) was against Russia. Russia managed to turn the war around on their own. We gave them aid yes but most of the weapons we gave them they thought were crap and really a Sherman next to a T-34 is crap.

Anyways this isn't a WW2 forum, my point was simple Germany was out numbered and I said in my posts that I was over simplifying it.

thats non-sence. The only place the BOS train in NV is that small shooting range :facepalm:

I agree. WW2 has been debated and anolyzed to death already. Not to mention the gazillion games devoted to that genre.

Simulations cannot re-create an accurate war experience. Once again, war is not simply one battlefield. It is a multi-faceted complex situation that 0's and 1's can not prepare them for.


Oh right, I forgot being able to punch a Fiend's head off with a power fist = tactics. :rolleyes:

They have shooting ranges and Simulators, not much but it counts for something.

lololololz great point!!!! just like the only training legion boys do are running up and down a hill all day!!! lolololololololzzzzzzz!!

Chances are this will get locked soon because of post limit so for kicks I am goign to post this again

"Modern Style? You do know that Legion and BoS don't have modern planes and so on right? Pretty much they are fighting a WW1 or ealier war.

NCR did not attack the Helios with Vertibirds and bombers and so on. They simply cut off the BoS and let them fire off all their ammo. Let them run out of food and water. Seige Warefare.

Legion are smart enough to do the same. Why is it everyone thinks in terms of head on attacks? Think seige. Think hit and run. America had very few troops and were poorly equiped and they won against the British Empire. Poorly equiped can do amazing things and the Legion arn't out numbered by BoS. They out number the BoS greatly.

Think outside the Box people. War isn't just running head long into a wall of bullets till one runs out of people.

NCR has nothing that can withstand Gauss Weapons or deal with T-51b power armour. At least not when they dealt with the BoS at Helios. The average Joe was a man with a piece of crap service rifle and leather armour.

Leather armour in a desert. I can see why they keep saying "Being in the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter." No [censored] Shurlock, you are dressed head to toe in leather armour in a desert! Legion are much cooler (as in not over heating) in their armour and have more freedom of movement. I bet no one thought about that "

The legion have camps and acres of land, they are born and raised as killers, not humans. Its like a technique the special forces use its similar to brainwashing.