If I were Kimball I'd have committed them to the Dam....it's a battle he cannot afford to lose. But then, if I were Kimball I would have cashiered Oliver, replaced him with Hsu, and not needed them (or the Courier) in the first place.




They didn't kill everyone in the Pitt.....they wiped out all the gangs and anyone else who tried to put up a fight but there were a number of people left to become Ashur's first followers. Lyons is recruiting Wastelanders, at least since Casdin and his men split off. If you talk to Gunny he complains that they're being committed to combat before he can finish training them to the usual BoS standards so most don't last long. That will probably change as they distribute captured Enclave firepower around the various settlements, begin using Vertibirds to back up thier troops and begin picking off problem groups such as Talon Company one by one. If they take the next logical step....storm Vault 87 and destroy the FEV vats, which means no more mutants....they will quickly become the most powerful part of the BoS....and the most cosmopolitan.

They probably wouldn't have enough to equip an army. They probably don'y even have enough to equip the Rangers. The BOS has enough power armor after the enclave incident and its just as good if not better than the Fallout 2 APA to go around and their's still has the servos making BOS better armored and more maneuverable than NCR heavy troopers.

Let me explain. They looted a military base, stocked to the gills with state-of-the-art armor and weaponry. Advanced Power Armor>T-51B Power Armor. Hellfire Power Armor>Advanced Power Armor, but that was produced in much smaller quantity. And the Rangers I think are only involved because Caesar is a slaver. And why wouldn't Advanced Power Armor have servos? We're not talking about the scavenged junk in Nevada, we're talking about the stuff they raided from Navarro. And if they only got we'll say 10,000 suits of APA, 1,000 pulse rifles, 1,000 pulse pistols, 8,000 plasma rifles, 8,000 plasma pistols, and 2,000 laser rifles, and 2,000 laser pistols, and 2,500 suits of Enclave-Grade Leather Armor, that'd easily be enough to exterminate the Brotherhood of Steel.

The NCR is far from evil. Corrupt yes. Evil no.

I just skimmed the first page so I'm not sure if anybody mentione Helios One.

The NCR would win since they origanolly won during the battle at Helios One over control of it. The NCR left only a few remains of the mid-western Brotherhood chapter so the BoS would not win due to the lack of Paladins and what not. So, NCR. And don't judge me just because I have the NCR flag as an avatar.

NCR would [censored] BoS badly, it isn't really about equipment, tactics and skills of individual combatants, it would boil down to logistics. It is said that only amateurs talk about tactics and professionals focus on logistics. Tech, training and tactics surely are factors, but in the end winner of wars is one that can sustain the war. WWII is good example. Germans had far better equipment than allies when it comes to how advanced the technology those employed, German tactical doctrine was lot more flexible. Germans built Tiger and Panther tanks, both of those were more than little better than any allied tanks, even if their superior tanks would have beaten any allied attack 10 to 1, unfortunately Soviet factories beyond Ural built 10 T-34's and US factories 10 Shermans at same time Germans built one tank. NCR vs BoS would come to that.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Greg_Bear says otherwise. "The only citizens of the Pitt spared by Lyons (apart from those lucky enough to escape from them) were children who appeared to be unmutated. Greg Bear was one of these children."

The NCR don't have good logistics either just look at Bitter Springs, they had to enlist the help of a non member to help them.

That being said I still believe that the NCR would be victorious the only BOS group who stands a chance of victory against them is the MWBOS.

First of all, Mojave chapter is part of the original BoS and second, they are only a small fraction of it.

- This.

NCR would be able to field manpower to an extent that would cripple BoS. Even if BoS has powerarmor and the Midwestern BoS has a lot going for it, sheer numbers would do it. BoS can't afford to loose too many men. NCR can always conscript more and hire mercs. BoS antipathy toward the locals and general disdain of anyone not BoS would make if not impossible then at least very pricy. BoS wouldn't be able to count on locals for support and logistical aid to the extent that NCR would. Classic Mao/Giap small unit tactics would be able to put a severe strain on BoS.

In a battle,the NCR would probably have General Oliver go on a stalemate with them at a concrete dam. ^_^

In the end,the brotherhood would win because the NCR would dwaddle with their SINGLE SHOT service rifles.

Oliver was right. Legion came to him head on.

Those single shot rifles did a good job at helios one. If we are to believe the gun runners NCR has way better fire power such as light machine guns. Their rangers do.

Still LMG's vs Plasma Rifles and besides MWBOS and ECBOS have probably grown drastically in numbers while NCR has withered away fighting the Legion.

Just a comment, only the elite of the Midwestern Brotherhood's army is equipped with power armor. The rest have anywhere between leather and combat, though to be fair this was 80 years before FNV so who knows what they got their hands on since then. The Midwestern Brotherhood(assuming it survived to 2280) has massive bases of recruitment in a similar fashion to Caesar's legion in the sense that they pacify tribes and take their best as conscripts and train them. The Brotherhood also seems to have become a government, lording over as a military and social elite over a large area and taking the best and brightest into the "aristocracy" of the Brotherhood. Assuming we retcon their armor to say, T-51b and T-45d(or assuming the "Civilian Power Armor" is canon, I'd assume same quality as T-45d or weakened T-51b just looking "cooler") the Paladins still have about the same strength as the EC and WC Brotherhood, but due to the overall lack of military bases in the Chicago area and the sheer number of military recruits, they'd likely have a military similar to the NCR except somewhat smaller yet more elite.

With their Authoritarian, morally dark and semi-racist Feudal Government, they'd probably resemble Caesar's Legion in NCR's clothing with the Brotherhood's Honor Code.

The battle of HELIOS One never made sense to me..
I wonder what would happen though if you′d sent everyone in the bunker to Camp Golf.. Any other NCR place the BoS would slaughter with ease.

What I figure Helios was before Legion came. BoS are at Helios even though many could not figure out why. NCR came in full force to drive the BoS out. BoS out numbered greatly. If I remember right they were running out of ammo? NCR could have just surrounded the place. Since Mojave Chapter is still around they must have fought their way out. So it was not a total victory for NCR. More like a fighting retreat for the BoS.

Actually the brotherhood usually fights from easily defenseable positions but the elder knew about Archimedes II and Helios and if the chapter got that they could do alot of damage against NCR.
Offtopic: I just realized the pre-war government really love space based weaponry.

Archimedes

The NCR, this is due to the fact they have more numbers.

If there was a fight between the NCR and the DC BoS, then I think the attacker would lose. We're talking about a logistics nightmare of moving an army across the continent, after all. I guess you could say that the world of fallout now has a 1900-1910s level of technology. There's no infrastructure to fly any large body of people across the whole continent, and you have that terra incognita that is the midwest in between.

I suspect Bethesda is setting up a big fight in the future, but more needs to be known about the midwest. I think the BoS is splintered in three different factions. The remnant in the west, the Midwestern chapter, and the eastern chapter. All of them operate independently of each other with conflicting goals, and the sundering of the organisation is all but definite. The DC Chapter is the de facto rulers of the Capital Wastelands, the Midwestern chapter we - as I said - don't know much about. The western part is in ruins, and the NCR has filled the vacuum there.

We'll see. I think another game in any part of the country will be interesting.

You just give us time to pull are heads out of are asses. Once we realize we can't just have an organization "smart" people and that regular wastelanders, with proper training, could give us the upperhand. And reunite with Lyons(*sigh*) along with the midwest and their vehicles. We would wreck the NCR, mowing down your grunts with are p94's and gatling lasers :gun: Like fire ants coming out of out anthills (bunkers) we could easily catch the NCR off guard.

Note this will probably never happen :facepalm: damn stubborn people.

But hey, a war between the BoS and NCR would be one hell of a battle, and not like the "battle" at Hoover dam either(WTH was that...) like a real war.

Lyons should accept his failure and simply say to the current High Elder, "You were right, I was wrong."

Agreed.

The NCR would win through attrition. The NCR would lose alot of people, but, the manpower available to the BoS would erode away and the BoS would collapse. NCR just has too many people for the BoS to kill.

No BOS. why? if we are talking about the BOS in NV then the BOS would get slaughterd. IF we are talking about the BOS from like Mid west or Lyons then they would slaughter the NCR no doubt. They have far better armor than the NCR and equipment. Also the Troops for the BOS are in far better condition than the NCR.